Expats in Thailand - How do you survive?

[BlueBallz]

Heres an idea: Have a rich, parent, unlce, or any other family member. make certain they are rich and you are in the will, then, this is the toughest part, one night get them pissed and smother them with a pillow........ ONLY JOKING!!!!!

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!

[Ivor Biggun]

(dixon cox @ Oct. 11 2009,08:10)

(JaiDee @ Oct. 10 2009,20:40) cheers Dixon, hopefully we can cross paths during that year {maybe with PD?}  for a beer or 2.  

Absolutely  

It's the people you meet which turn a good time in LOS into a great time in LOS and PD has certainly helped me to keep that mantra alive. I look forward to that time

I have 2 shorter trips already booked for the end of this year and a further early next year in the pipeline prior to my (hopefully) summer release from the UK. I would love to make it in time for the Football World Cup in LOS (soccer) but I'll have to wait and see if that's possible as I must make hay while the sun shines in my current contract.

Fortunately I have no dependants and I'm divorced, so my self-centred existence makes for a good start.

Apologies to the OP for [hogging] keeping this thread warm  

It's a good way to test the waters. A lot of guys decide to move here and after a couple of months or a year decide it's not for them. If they've sold the house they're fucked though. I've been here approximately 4 1/2 years now and following a brief trip to the UK will never want to live there again. I said I would wait 5 years before selling up and it's rapidly approaching. If I were to return to the West I would probably go back to Canada or try New Zealand. I wouldn't want to buy property in Thailand as this way I have the option of upping sticks if it all goes wrong.

[Tralala777]

I sold my European business recently,pocketed a nice seven figure (Euro) sum,and am now retired from work,aged 50. Exactly as planned.

I own two properties outright in Europe,and am free from any morgage issues.No wife thankfully,but two fast-growing-up children who I support in education and suchlike.

I thought about living in Asia,but remain to be convinced.All the expats I meet on my many trips seem to be one bad decision away from poverty.

For me,a month in Asia several times a year does it for me.No need to live there,and get caught up in the merry-go-round of bullshit or another rat race,albeit a warmer one.

Keeping a balance is important,as is living in two parallel environments consecutively.The best of both worlds nicely sums it up.

Living in Thailand seems awash with problems.Visiting frequently there are less problems. And avoiding bad company,which seems to go hand-in-hand with expat ghetto existance,is something easier avoided if you dont live there.

Always remember,Thais Love Thais,and if you aren't one,the cards aren't stacked in your favour. Not today,not tomorrow.

[JaiDee]

(Ivor Biggun @ Oct. 11 2009,21:40) I've been here approximately 4 1/2 years now and following a brief trip to the UK will never want to live there again.

I bet that's common........ once people make the move and then go back to wherever they were from, they say to themselves 'WTF??, what was I thinking about not making the move sooner!'

you also make valid points about making damned sure a real move like that is what you truly want [forever] and can afford; there is pretty much no turning back once you have sold everything from the home to the car to the furniture, etc.... and the sticker shock of moving back to the UK or the USA after living in the 3rd world would indeed be tough to swallow.

[doug]

I'm not going to go into a lot of details about how to make money in Thailand, because that answer is different for everyone. Some people saved at home and then retired here, while others have some skill that's in high demand (engineering, web design, native-speaking teaching, etc...) and so they make ends meet that way.

The means isn't really important, it's the ends that matter. Why are you coming here and how long will you stay? That's going to determine a lot of your choices and it's going to be the biggest factor effecting how much money you'll need.

Here's some tips:

1) Bouncing back-and-forth from the borders on 30-day (or 3 month) tourist visas is stupid. It's a waste of time and money. And more importantly it's a huge hassle that is full of risk. If you can't find a way to stay here long-term LEGALLY, don't come. Seriously. Don't come. Figure out a way to get a rock-solid yearly visa and don't come until you do.

2) Teaching English to kids to pay for p4p sex is a SHITTY thing to do. Don't be that guy. That guy is an asshole. If I could go to each and every school in Thailand and round up all the mongers, I'd personally punch them all in the face and then ship their asses back to Manchester in a frieght container.

Look, I know what people do in their free time is their own god damn business, and that teachers are human beings (and adults) too, so they can do whatever they want at night. So yeah, yeah, I know a guy's got a right to wet his noodle, but save it. I'm not listening.

These are KIDS, we're talking about here, and teaching kids isn't a JOB, it's a calling. You either love doing it for the SAKE of doing it, or you DO SOMETHING ELSE! Good teachers are up late at night planning lessons and grading papers, not getting lap dances in a bar. And no matter how great a teacher you are, you can't do your job 100% if you're hungover or sleep-deprived.

I know I'm sounding a bit prudish, but this is one of my biggest pet peeves. Nobody should become a teacher for any other reason than to TEACH KIDS. Period. You don't do it to get rich and you certainly don't do it to pay for a lavish lifestyle (like prowling the P4P scene).

Whenever I'm out on the town and I run into a fellow farang in a gogo bar, if he tells me he's a teacher, my skin automatically starts to crawl. Sorry, but it just gives off a huge CREEP vibe, imho. Nothing annoys me more than some janitor or security guard who can't get a job doing anything else so he says to himself, "Aw, fuck it, I'll teach English." As if simply being a native-speaker qualifies any MORON to be a teacher.

The Thais may be gullible enough to believe white-skin = teaching credentials, but come on guys, you KNOW that's not the case. It actually takes a fair amount of skill, patience and intelligence to be a teacher, and you don't acquire that cleaning toilets back in Hoboken. If I had 10 baht for every guy who "plays Hangman" with his class for a 30 minute "time filler", I'd be a very rich man.

And that's the part that rubs me the wrong way. See, I'd have no problem with guys cruising the p4p scene after a hard day in the classroom, IF they actually did their jobs! But fucking about in the classroom for an hour, speaking AT the kids is NOT teaching! If you're doing that shit, then you are DAMAGING a child's education for the sake of YOUR selfish narcissism. That is a shitty thing to do, period.

So if you happen to be a great, experienced teacher (or a newbie with a strong desire to learn how to do it RIGHT), and you're can also exercise enough self-control to confine your whore-mongering to non-school nights, then by all means, get a teaching job.

But if you're one of those assholes who thinks its OK to HURT KIDS just so you can get a free pass (aka work permit) to Ladyboy Disneyland, stay the fuck home.

I have lots of Thai friends with families and I see the impact it has on them, so I take this quite personally. The revolving door of fly-by-night white-skinned MORONS has got to stop! People need to take some personal responsibility for their actions. I've got nothing against people who pursue their personal desires on the P4P scene (heck, I'm one of them), but I have an intense dislike for those people who think it's OK for them to take "working vacations" in which their primary focus is on getting paid so they can get laid. That's a HORRIBLE reason to start teaching. Anyone who thinks they can photocopy a worksheet off the internet 15 minutes before classtime and call themselves a "teacher" should be beaten with a rubber hose until they see the error of their ways.

3) Thai people are very socially conscious people. Your appearance and your public lifestyle will have a HUGE impact on your success here. Most guys blow it when they come over here. They don't protect their privacy because they mistakenly believe that they are "anonymous" here (nothing could be further from the truth).

You can't survive in Thailand without friends. This is not a country where loners prosper. And NORMAL Thai people will not be your friend if you're percieved as having a lifestyle that is "unacceptable". I can't tell you the number of times I've overheard my Thai neighbors talking about other farang in the area and using words like "tu-rayt" (shameful) or "naa-aai" (disgraceful).

So if you're planning on opening a business here, you'd better be extra careful about cultivating your reputation and public personae. I know that rubs the "free spirits" the wrong way, but you guys can talk about the way things SHOULD be until you're blue in the face, that's still not going to change the way things ARE.

A lot of doors will shut for you if you're not careful about your reputation. You won't know they're shut, because you'll never see them in the first place. But trust me, there are many opportunities available here for smart, saavy farang.

It takes a while to build and cultivate the relationships and networks of friends you need to open some of those doors, but the end result is worth it. I can't tell you all the amazing opportunities I've been offered since coming here, but I can tell you that NONE of those opportunities would have been offered if my neighbors saw me in the local market, red-faced drunk and arguing with a bar girl (I've actually seen a guy doing just that, and do you really think anyone is going to offer that guy a business deal after seeing him behave like that?).


So again, I'm not trying to be prudish or to put anyone down. I'm just stating the obvious truths about Thailand. In spite of what you may think, this is actually a very straight-laced conservative country and if you want to be successful here, you're going to have to learn how to swim in these waters.

Basically, my advice boils down to this:

1) if you're not ready. don't come.
2) if you can do anything else. don't teach.
3) if you can't afford a hotel room. don't take the bitch home!

[ezflip]

I've been reading this thread for the past 2 days or so, and it's got me thinking (probably why my head hurts) and some valid points have been raised.

To the original post - the answer is, as Tan said, save, save, save.

But the real question should be, how to live in Thailand and continue our mongering ways?

One would have to be pretty rich to do so on a retirement visa, right? You would have to be very frugal in order to make sure the tap does not run dry.  Many people retire to thailand but only a small percentage hang around the gogo circuit. Those that do run out of money eventually.

The alternative is to work in a field that allows you to enjoy your time off doing whatever you can think of without fear of loosing a reputation.

Doug brings up a good point about living & working in thailand while still enjoying our lifestyles. Loosing a job because the boss found out that you hang around bargirls is one thing, what about if he hears that LBs are your favorite flavour? How long before you get fired from your job then?

We, as westerners (and LB afficionados) don't discriminated BUT thais do.

As an occasional visitor, I don't have to worry about my reputation but some who live & work in Thailand have to keep their affairs a secret.

Just a thought...

[JaiDee]

(ezflip @ Oct. 12 2009,06:04) Doug brings up a good point about living & working in thailand

 I agree, I learned a lot from that awesome post, yours also EZ

[doug]

(ezflip @ Oct. 12 2009,06:04) But the real question should be, how to live in Thailand and continue our mongering ways?

....

Doug brings up a good point about living & working in thailand while still enjoying our lifestyles. Loosing a job because the boss found out that you hang around bargirls is one thing, what about if he hears that LBs are your favorite flavour? How long before you get fired from your job then?

We, as westerners (and LB afficionados) don't discriminated BUT thais do.

My point really wasn't about losing reputation due to dating a ladyboy, but rather losing reputation due to being promiscuous.

Thais are conservative, yes, but in ways like and unlike Westerners.

For example, if you meet a nice, proper ladyboy and have an out-in-the-open, proper relationship with her, nobody is going to blink twice about it.  Thais simply won't care.  Sure, they will gossip about you, but no more or less than they'd gossip about you if you had a genetic-girl girlfriend.

So if you want to go that route, by all means, go forward with it and have fun.  Lots of gay people settle down in Thailand and for good reason.  The culture is far more open and accepting of that lifestyle than Westerners are.  As long as you maintain a proper (monogamous) public relationship with her, nobody is going to care much about her gender.

They WILL look at her background, upbringing and job.  That's how Thais rate each other and since you're an outsider, they'll use your choice of a girlfriend as a way to gauge your "status".  Date a former bargirl and no matter how sweet she is, they'll downgrade you for it.  But date a hiso ladyboy version of Nong Poy (I wish!!) and they'll actually upgrade you for that.

Her family name and job title will have A LOT more to do with how they look at her (and by proxy, you) than her gender.  Trust me.

So "getting caught" dating a ladyboy isn't really an issue.  As long as you're open and upfront about it, and PUBLICLY monogamous, nobody will care very much, especially if she's a good girl from a good background.  So I disagree with you about Thais discriminating against ladyboys.  Thais discriminate, that's true, but it's more based on CLASS than on sexual orientation.

"Getting caught" dating a bargirl or "loso" girl?  Oooh boy, that's going to cost you points in the reputation department, big time.  Guys, don't get me wrong.  I'm not an elitist snob hellbent on climbing the social ladder.  I'm just stating the way things are.  This IS Thailand, and Thailand IS a very socially conscious nation.  If you're not aware of that, it's probably because you're living a lifestyle that's already pushed you out on the fringe of society where you don't have regular contact with normal Thai people.  So you'll just have to take my word for it.

Reputation is a COMMODITY in Thailand.  It is practically a tangible asset here and there are very real consequences to losing it and very real benefits to accumulating it.  So if you want to monger, by all means, monger away, but be CAREFUL about it.  Don't let that lifestyle seep back into your "normal" life.  Keep the two separate and you'll reap the benefits.

As for what kinds of jobs to work in order to pay the bills.... well, there aren't many options, which is why many guys choose teaching to pay the rent and get that all-important non-immigrant-B visa.

However, I can't emphasize enough what a shitty move that is.  Getting into teaching simply to fund/allow whore-mongering is probably the worst possible motive to take up that profession.  If your primary concern is how often and how cheaply you can get laid in this country, then don't set foot into a classroom, because you'll be there for all the wrong reasons and nobody will benefit from your presence there (including you).

There are other jobs available to farang, but you have to be patient, skillful, and creative.  It may take a while to find the right employment situation, but if you keep at it, you will.  You might have to be a bit creative, but you might just end up with a job that's cooler than the one you had back home.  Of course, as in all things, knowing some Thai people will help tremendously in your search, which is again yet another reason to protect your reputation so you can meet those Thais and they'll be willing to help you.

Hurting a child's education just to get a visa so you can monger is unacceptable in my opinion, especially when other options exist.  In fact, with a little bit of luck and some perseverence, you may actually end up with a job that becomes your primary reason for being here.  How cool would that be?  Instead of drudging through the day in a hot, non-air-conditioned room filled with 50+ screaming kids busily ignoring you, you could be doing something you actually ENJOY, and you'll get lots of positive karma points for minimizing the damage fly-by-night farang do to this country's education system.

[ezflip]

(doug @ Oct. 11 2009,20:49) My point really wasn't about losing reputation due to dating a ladyboy, but rather losing reputation due to being promiscuous.

Thank you for pointing out the distinction.

My french brain tries to find the right words for the context of my message. My point was about 'loss of reputation' and not losing it while yours was about being promiscuous.

Correct??

[ezflip]

Forgot to add that I agree that teaching english without being fully into it is not a good reason to do so and support ones mongering ways.

Personnally, if I was to teach any subject, it would be Autocad, Inventor, Revit and Solidworks. Very technical subjects which requires mature & dedicated students.

[PigDogg]

(doug @ Oct. 11 2009,14:00) but you guys can talk about the way things SHOULD be until you're blue in the face, that's still not going to change the way things ARE.

I've noticed that the really succesful people that I know back home don't waste their energy thinking about the way things should be.

But they are quite good at grasping the reality of situations and then playing the game for maximum advantage.

[rusty nail]

(ezflip @ Oct. 12 2009,06:04) But the real question should be, how to live in Thailand and continue our mongering ways?

That's so easy...

After a few months of living in Thailand and paying over 100 baht for a 6 baht water and hassling prices with argumentative hookers then you very quickly migrate away from the bar scene altogether.

It can be a bit of a buzz to go back to it every now and then, but let me ask you this...

There are about 250,000 young ladyboys in Thailand with normal jobs looking for love and a few of them are charging you money to wriggle on them.

Where should YOU be looking for love/sex/company at night if you actually live here?

It won't be the bars in Pattaya or Bangkok. It will be the make up counters and clothes shops and markets near where you live.

Doug - thanks for posting. You should write a book.

[JaiDee]

(rusty nail @ Oct. 12 2009,13:20) Where should YOU be looking for love/sex/company at night if you actually live here?

It won't be the bars in Pattaya or Bangkok. It will be the make up counters and clothes shops and markets near where you live.

Not to be too argumentative here {God forbid!} but haven't  you found all your  GF's in the exact same places you are telling us NOT to look?

   Except the first, that is..... the rest all worked in 'shit pits' or you were out having fun butterflying in Pattaya bars ......  just curious, 'cause if all these girls are so available at make-up counters and clothing stores it would seem at least one of your long-term conquests would work in one of those places.

     Just wondering 'cause I know for sure if I ever migrate to Asia I am avoiding bars alltogether and would like to know if anyone here has succeeded in the above theory;  it seems like almost all the regulars who post here and live in Thailand always meet their girls in the bar scene.

[dummy_plug]

Good post and great responses. As a younger guy I've toyed with the idea of living and working in Thailand. I actually got an offer for a global company in my field, but the pay was lower than what I expected (shouldn't be so suprised in this market) that it's better off for me to make 1-2 trips a year, work in the US for another 10 or 15 years, save well, and then retire early and forget about everything else. Dropping hat now and even finding a decent paid job would probably doom me for good if anything ever went pear-shaped. I would probably lead a comfortable life but I wouldn't be able to spend the kind of money I do on things I do in the West like buy my gadgets, have a nice car, take frequent vacations, etc. Also, any experience I get in Thailand, even if its in my industry, probably is worthless if I ever went back. So I think its best for younger guys, 40 and below, to realistically think about making as much headway as they can in their home countries before taking the move.

I think it's tough to do what a lot of guys you hear do. We hear the success stories, but probably in reality, those who can make a good living (variation depends) in Thailand is relatively small.

[tomscam]

Doug, you're not a Teacher by any chance? You seem very passionate about this matter.

It's a very touchy subject I'm sure, as I'm led to believe that quite a few BM's have dabbled in Teaching. In fact, threads in the past have been written about the topic of getting Teaching jobs in Thailand. I'm interested to hear all views as I'm a Teacher in Australia and have often considered making the move (the crappy wage stops me).