Expats in Thailand - How do you survive?

[terryw]

I'm a teacher and decided to work in Hanoi rather than Thailand for 4 reasons:

1) The pay and working conditions in Vietnam are much better.
2) The teaching industry in Thailand has quite rightly a crap reputation - 80% of teachers there would not meet the Vietnam government qualification standards for foreign teachers.
3) Being associated with lb's whilst teaching children could lead to workplace problems.
4)Its easy and fairly cheap to get to BKK from Hanoi - and my LB gf likes visiting Vietnam.

[tomscam]

Terry, what sort of pay are you looking at working in Vietnam? How do you pick up jobs there and what are your options as far as employers go?

[Ivor Biggun]

I'd agree wholeheartedly with Doug's 1) and 2) but as for 3)- what's wrong with an alley once in a while

[bigmick22]

Maybe it's just me but the thought of a middle-aged white guy hanging out in department stores or near universities hitting on young thai ladyboys seems a lot creepier than going to Nana to pay a hooker and then asking her to fuck off when you're done

[Bicycle Pump]

(bigmick22 @ Oct. 15 2009,02:03) Maybe it's just me but the thought of a middle-aged white guy hanging out in department stores or near universities hitting on young thai ladyboys seems a lot creepier than...

Your body may be in The East but your mind is still in The West!

It's more convenient to pop across to Nana and hand over a fist full of cash for a wriggle - but there are those that would consider that equally creepy!

However you choose to meet your 'beddy buddys' is a matter of lifestyle, preference and convenience.

[JaiDee]

AND the bar scene is so much easier and they all speak english also.

with stores and colleges you never know what you'll get language-wise, especially if it's off the tourist track.

[doug]

(tomscam @ Oct. 13 2009,20:08) Doug, you're not a Teacher by any chance? You seem very passionate about this matter.

It's a very touchy subject I'm sure, as I'm led to believe that quite a few BM's have dabbled in Teaching. In fact, threads in the past have been written about the topic of getting Teaching jobs in Thailand.  I'm interested to hear all views as I'm a Teacher in Australia and have often considered making the move (the crappy wage stops me).

No, I'm not, but like I said, I have a lot of Thai friends and I see the damage that these fly-by-night assholes do to these kids and it really pisses me off.

I'm fairly liberal when it comes to what people can and cannot do with their lives. As long as both parties consent, I'm of the mind to let adults have their fun and do as they please. So I'm definitely not some stick-in-the-mud prude.

However, there is one thing that I absolutely cannot tolerate, and that's when someone harms another person in the process of pursuing their own personal desires. It's selfish and shitty and it's just not something I can put up with.

It's like when people go through a messy divorce and use their kids as weapons against each other. Yes, it's understandable and to a degree it's just human nature, so you can't throw rocks at them because many of us would do the exact same thing if we were put in their shoes. However, it's still a shitty thing to do and I certainly don't have to put up with it. Especially when it affects kids that I know and care about.

I'm like a loud goofy uncle to a lot of my friends kids, and it really burns me to listen to some fucking retard spouting off in a bar about how "easy" it is to get a teaching job and how very little work he actually does. I can't help but think that asshole might be teaching kids I know, and that REALLY pisses me off.

So yes, I can understand the desire to live in Thailand with minimal hassle and a decent living wage. Teaching jobs certainly fit that bill. So I understand that it's the path of least resistance and most lazy fucks are going to take it. However, that still doesn't excuse their behavior.

Pissing about in Nana Plaza at 2:00am while you're on a holiday is one thing. Pissing about Nana Plaza at 2:00am when you have an 8:00am class to teach is an entirely different matter. The first guy is not doing anyone any harm. He's just having a good time with another consenting adult and paying her for the service. The latter guy, however, is going to spend the next day blowing off his lessons (because he's too tired and hungover) and playing "Hangman" or giving the kids shitty internet-downloadable coloring sheets that have nothing to do with the unit he's teaching.

Some of my Thai friends have actually asked me to tag along to parent/teacher conferences to help them evaluate their kid's teachers. I'm happy to oblige because I know how hard it is to sort out the crazies from the normal people in an alien culture. So it's nice to have some help spotting the "weirdos". I do the same thing when I'm interviewing Thai staff for my business. I always have my girlfriend sit in on the interviews so she can spot "odd" or impolite answers.

Most of my friends send their kids to upper-end international schools so they don't have the same bottom-of-the-bucket job pool that the bilingual schools have to scrouge through. But even so, I've spotted a few nutters working at that level too.

Let's put it this way. If you were paying 300K to 500K a year to educate your kid, would you want him/her learning science from some Aussie garbageman who got a D- in science, actually hated school, and only decided to teach 6th grade because "that's when the girls are the 'hottest'"?

Granted it's mostly the school's/parents' fault for thinking that being a "native English speaker" somehow magically bestows the ability to teach algebra, but that doesn't mean it's OK to take advantage of a broken system, especially when the ultimate victims of that broken system are little kids.

I guess my real objection is that these guys are taking these jobs under false pretenses (claiming to want to teach just so they can get a WP and a bit of whoring cash, when actually they hate teaching). And they are also getting paid good money for a job they didn't do.

So it's really just shitty in multiple ways. Don't you agree?

[manarak]

I am currently in Thailand, and I just read this thread.

Everyone has his personal skills and aptitudes, so the money-making schemes are different.

There are some rules of thumb:
- businesses don't run well without the boss
- doing business in Thailand isn't easy, and it takes years to setup something worthwhile, with all the work, time and cost to increase reputation.
- there are some "easy" things to do to get money, if you've got the proper connections, for example self-employed export biz. But again, no chance without connections.
- if you are good at what you are doing back home, you already are successful back home. If you are successful back home, you will probably be successful in Thailand. If you are not successful with for example leading a restaurant back home, don't expect to be successful in Thailand.
- the best thing in my opinion is to have a biz that works foreign markets (Europe, US) and that can be run from Thailand (for example internet-based). In this case, you don't even have to worry about reputation, if you are planning to live for yourself.
- if you are already loaded - no problem. The easiest life is probably to own real estate and to cash the rents along with your pension.

The best visa options in my opinion are the thai language student visa (max. 5 years) and the "educational visa" for one of your dependents, meaning you also get the same visa.
I will send my children to school, and I will get the educational one as long as they attend school. After 5 years, I'll ask for the PR.

Of course, if you plan to settle down for a long time and get PR and possibly Thai Citizenship, then you'd better pay attention to your reputation, and be verysecretive about your "secret life", be it with girls or ladyboys.
Don't forget that your house staff and all the other thai people love to gossip.


One last thing: I very often read about how everything is expensive, how some people can't get the approx. minimum of 1000 USD for retirement or can't afford this and that.
The point is, if you can't show the 1000 USD, you probably can't retire here.
If you are not yet retired, and don't make 1000 USD a month, you will have a hard and frustating time, plus you will have no retirement plan. This is the highway to become an alcohol addict or worse and for making the now infamous flight out of the window from one of Pataya's cheaper accomodations at one time or another.
Money finit, velly solly...

[Bicycle Pump]

If you are successful back home, you will probably be successful in Thailand...

[PigDogg]

I would modify that a bit and say if you are not successful back home then you will not be successful in Thailand.

[tomscam]

Fair point Doug

You made clear distinctions between what is good and what is bad teaching and based on that I agree with your point.

Cheers

[PigDogg]

I'll tell you who's successful in Thailand, Pattaya Pete.

First he opens up FLB which had an internet forum driving customers to his bar. This model was also implemented and improved by Secrets which has an internet forum drive customers to the bar and hotel.

Pete then sells FLB and opens Pattaya Beer Garden, promotes it well on all the straight forums and gives customers a square deal. 45 baht draft Tiger, 50 baht draft Heineken, and 50 baht bottles of Beer Chang, as well as a reasonable food menu.

These prices are lower than what most crappy beer bars charge while Pattaya Beer Garden is a beautiful venue out on the bay. So sure he could charge more, but he wants happy customers who will return again and again.

[robbo]

(doug @ Oct. 15 2009,07:40) Blah blah blah...

seems to me your going a bit far with this one and getting yourself a wee bit wound up,first of all im no english teacher in thailand.......neither are you.
but i gather english teachers pay and conditions are generally poor in LOS.
if ive heard mant stories about how the thai system doesnt care too much about the thais quality of education,that money and the tick on the pupils sheet is more valued regardless of standards reached.
also its up to the guy how he spends his money.....he earned it.
perhaps if pay and conditions were much better then it might lure the more able and genuine of teachers away from a sensible job earning sensible money enabling a decent life back home to go to LOS.
you get what you pay for........in general. so thais cant compalin,they wont be changing their system anytime soon,untill then they will continue to attract many of the people that you mentioned.
btw i do understand your feelings,they are admirable if somewhat distanced from reality.

[Lefty]

I don't see how one can generalize that all English teachers you may see sometimes in a bar, are only teaching so they can fund mongering. Can't someone judiciously use some of their time to go out on the town and still be a good teacher? Since most teaching jobs have rather low pay, if that is one's only source of income, they flat out cannot afford to monger on a nightly basis. They will need some other kind of social pastime or just spend a lot of time in their rooms. So why would they choose a night to stay out in the bars until 2am with an 8am class in the morning, when they could just as well go out once or twice a week on the nights when they don't have a class the next morning? IMO, from what I've been told most teachers make, one could not afford to go out with the intention of paying a bar fine and having the girl spend the night and paying her a LT fee, more than once or twice a week at most. Guys, including teachers who may also be mongers, will just naturally start meeting some girls and or lbs outside the bar scene too for that matter. Making the bars even less of a necessity to help take care of carnal urges.

After one has lived here a few weeks or months, going out to bars every night gets old anyway, unless perhaps if one is an alkie who can't live without his daily dose of booze.

[PigDogg]

I guess their are certain jobs where we want employees to wake up clear and alert. Doctor and airline pilot would be on my list.

While with garbageman and football player who really cares.