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  • US Navy - Gay discharged sailor recalled

    First, let me say I've been mega busy so obviously I haven't been around so much (probably to the delight of some).  At any rate, I miss you guys.

    Secondly, I posted this here after briefly considering the fishbox, but I wanted a more serious discussion, not a lot of coking and joking (Navy term for ya).

    I was in the USN, and though I'm not gay, like most people here, I would say I'm definately not in any easy to peg mold, and certainly sympathetic to anyone's sexual orientation as their business and their right.

    So, without any further ado, here is the article. Please, no too-easy jokes on the word "discharge".


    Gay Sailor Called Back to Active Duty
    Stars and Stripes | Joseph Giordono | May 08, 2007


    On his wedding night in July 2004, then-Petty Officer 3rd Class Jason Knight finally accepted a truth he had fought against for years: he was gay.

    Almost immediately, he moved to get his marriage annulled. He apologized to the woman he'd married. And when it came time to explain his changing circumstances to the Navy, he left nothing out. Under the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, he was quickly discharged from the service.

    But now €” whether through a clerical oversight or what some claim is an unwritten change in policy to keep more gay servicemembers in the ranks at a time of war €” Jason Knight is back on active duty.

    Since promoted to petty officer second class, Knight is finishing a scheduled one-year tour in Kuwait with Naval Customs Battalion Bravo. And, already kicked out of the Navy once, he sees no need to hide his sexual orientation.

    "I thought it was a joke at first," he said, remembering the day he received his recall orders. "It was the ultimate kick in the ass. But then I thought, there isn't much they can do to me they haven't done the first time."

    It was comments by Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that spurred Knight to come out publicly a second time. In defending the military's policy, Pace called homosexual acts immoral and contrary to military values.

    Alert: Tell your public officials how you feel about this issue.

    "Though I respect [Pace] as a leader, it made me so mad," Knight said.

    "I spent four years in the Navy, buried fallen servicemembers as part of the Ceremonial Guard, served as a Hebrew Linguist in Navy Intelligence, and received awards for exemplary service," he wrote in a letter to Stripes. "However, because I was gay, the Navy discharged me and recouped my 13k sign-on bonus. Nine months later, the Navy recalled me to active duty. Did I accept despite everything that happened? Of course I did, and I would do it again. Because I love the Navy and I love my country. And despite Pace's opinion, my shipmates support me."

    Those shipmates include his direct supervisors in the customs battalion.

    "He's better than the average Sailor at his job," said Bill Driver, the leading petty officer of Knight's 15-person customs crew in Kuwait. "It's not at all a strange situation. As open as he is now, it was under wraps for quite a while. It wasn't an issue at work."

    Another Sailor with the detail, Petty Officer 1st Class Tisha Hanson, works in admin and has had to process discharges for homosexual Sailors before.

    "I've obviously never heard of something like this happening before," she said of Knight's return to active duty. "But it doesn't bother me. The Navy tends to keep people who don't want to be here, but Jason does."

    In Knight's case, he was given an honorable discharge when booted from the Navy on April 4, 2005. Though it's not widely known, a clause in the military's policy on discharging gays allows commanders discretion on what form of discharge to give a gay servicemember.

    In many cases, a legal expert at an advocacy group working to repeal the policy said, that's exactly what happens.

    "The vast majority of [discharge papers] give the narrative reason as €˜homosexual conduct,'" said Kathi Westcott, the deputy director for law at the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network in Washington, D.C.

    But, "individual commanders sometimes think the servicemember is a good troop, and they don't want them to begin their next life with a €˜black mark,'" she said.

    Westcott said that Pace's comments €” and a study showing declining numbers of discharges for gay servicemembers €” have reignited debate about the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

    The renewed debate includes suggestions that the Pentagon is less interested in kicking out gay servicemembers during war. Pentagon stats show that discharges of gay servicemembers dropped to 612 in 2006. The peak of such discharges was in 2001, when 1,273 were reported.

    The numbers have fallen steadily each year €” from 906 in 2002 to 787 in 2003, and on down. At a time when the Pentagon is struggling to meet recruiting goals, many point to the numbers as a wartime trend. Others reject that claim. And the majority of servicemembers are still opposed to openly serving gay troops.

    Defenders of the policy say even, or especially, during war, the harm outdoes the good.

    "I believe polarization of personnel and breakdown of unit effectiveness is too high a price to pay for well-intentioned but misguided efforts to elevate the interests of a minority of homosexual servicemembers above those of their units," Sen. John McCain, a presidential candidate and former Navy officer, wrote in an April 16 letter explaining his support of the policy.

    "Most importantly, the national security of the United States, not to mention the lives of our men and women in uniform, are put at grave risk by policies detrimental to the good order and discipline which so distinguish America's armed services."

    Still, Pentagon stats show that only .3 percent of all discharges are for homosexual conduct.

  • #2
    Grunyen, welcome back! Interesting you have chosen to post this topic.

    The idea that homosexuals cannot make good soldiers is rooted in the Christian influences of many western nations. The view is that homosexuality is a "sin". When we look at history, the Greeks, especially the Spartans were some of the best soldiers in their era. Clearly homosexual acts were part of their military, indeed their culture, and likewise for the Romans.

    My opinion is that it is no business of the commanders and administration to know what the sexual orientation is of their soldiers. It has no impact on their capability to do their job.

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    • #3
      Excellent.

      I was reading this and thinking of an experience I had at work.

      I think many gay men tend to hide it as much as possible, which is often impossible, and obvious to many people, and it ends up making everyone uncomfortable.

      I had a gay manager once (in high tech), who did the opposite, and flaunted and joked about it. He'd say things in front of his boss like, "This is a really critical meeting. What dress should I wear?", or perhaps, "Jack's technical design is spot on, and he's so cute, isn't he?".

      The result of that was that everyone felt comfortable with him. There was no doubts he was gay, and no doubts most of his employees were not, and his joking about it made everyone feel ok, and joke back sometimes.

      I know that doesn't work for everyone, but I was just thinking this poor guy going back in the navy, well known to be gay, may actually have an easier time now than when he was hiding it (if he did) before.

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      • #4
        Nice to see some "positive" discrimination actually working quite well!

        Well done to the US Navy here.
        seriously pig headed,arrogant,double standard smart ass poster!

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        • #5
          (rxpharm @ May 10 2007,04:08) The idea that homosexuals cannot make good soldiers is rooted in the Christian influences of many western nations. The view is that homosexuality is a "sin". When we look at history, the Greeks, especially the Spartans were some of the best soldiers in their era. Clearly homosexual acts were part of their military, indeed their culture, and likewise for the Romans.
          I'm not sure that these ancient civilizations actually thought in terms of homo or hetero sexuality. The Romans didn't think it was buggery unless you were on the bottom.

          I would think that homosexuals in military units might be less trouble than the usual bunch of horny sailors. Certainly they wouldn't need as much R&R or leave for town, would they?

          And to whether it is unnatural ... wikipedia states "Homosexual behavior has been observed among 1,500 species, and in 500 of those it is well documented. Georgetown University professor Janet Mann has specifically theorized that homosexual behavior, at least in dolphins, is an evolutionary advantage that minimizes intraspecies aggression, especially among males."

          Male penguin couples have been documented to mate for life, build nests together, and to use a stone as a surrogate egg in nesting and brooding. In 2004, the Central Park Zoo in the United States replaced one male couple's stone with a fertile egg, which the couple then raised as their own offspring."

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          • #6
            Didn't comedian Billy Connolly do a song about this

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            • #7
              In my line of work about 25% of those employed are gay  -  as opposed to 10 % of the general population in the UK.

              They are responsible for customer services and retail.  I have to say that they provide a very high standard of customer service and frequently exceed the retail targets that are set.

              I am responsible for safetyand maintenance and the gay people I work with have a focus and dedication to their work that helps me greatly.

              I have no doubt that when the s#*t hits the fan they will do equally as well.

              I think the US Navy has made the right choice.  The UK Royal Navy is still trying to work out their problems on this subject.    

              RR.
              Pedants rule, OK. Or more precisely, exhibit certain of the conventional trappings of leadership.

              "I love the smell of ladyboy in the morning."
              Kahuna

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              • #8
                Interesting article...

                Seems when the armed forces are not too busy enforcing "freedom" around the globe, they'll play politics with their boys but when they need cannon fodder they'll forget all that and pretty much sign up anyone...

                Jason Knight showed real class in both his attitude to the navy and his handling of the whole situation.

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                • #9
                  >>"However, because I was gay, the Navy discharged me and recouped my 13k sign-on bonus.

                  Hope he got his 13k sign-on bonus back!

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                  • #10
                    " Rum , sodomy and the lash" , thats how Churchill described the UK Navy many years go in his youth.

                    Actually the UK Navy has a policy of advertising in the Pink Press for personel since the beginning of 2005.

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                    • #11
                      (Tomcat @ May 10 2007,11:35) Actually the UK Navy has a policy of advertising in the Pink Press for personel since the beginning of 2005.
                      Have they changed Queens Regs then?

                      RR.
                      Pedants rule, OK. Or more precisely, exhibit certain of the conventional trappings of leadership.

                      "I love the smell of ladyboy in the morning."
                      Kahuna

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                      • #12
                        Yes... The European law was against the armed forces so with a minimum of fuss the QRs were updated almost overnight back in 2000.

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                        • #13
                          FYI info Roady....UK Navy/Hx issue

                          2004-5?
                          The Guardian( i think) made a thing about it back then and the name "Stonewall" comes to mind. I cant remember who or what Stonewall was but he/they/it figured in this.

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                          • #14
                            Here's the Stonewall website;
                            http://www.stonewall.org.uk/

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