gay sex !

[mirimark]

[QUOTE= (newcomer @ Dec. 11 2005,04:59)]Anyway...who gives a flying FUCK to labels

Bravo,,,,, Yes I agree, However. Even a Colony of Ants has Lables, Packs of Wolves, and a sewer full of rats ALL have lables.
Alpha Male.
Beta Male.
Soldier Ants.
Worker Ants.
RATS?
The biggest Rat wins.
With Lables, everyone has their role to play with one common goal to achieve as a Single Unit.

So in saying all that our goal as ATS Forum members is to?
Awwwwwh Fuck it, Go ask Aristotle because I don't know.

[Guest]

Yes, we don't give a fuck about labels, including me, but pretty much everyone else on the planet does.

Being labeled gay publicly brings many unpleasant side-effects in most parts of the world.

So I'm saying in utopia, nirvana, heaven, no labels are great, but it just isn't reality today. Now, we can post until we're blue in the face, we won't change labels society gives us, unless we all become global activists, however, my whole point was that in this group of people on the forum, at least we should be clear of no labels, or if you're going to give labels, in my humble opinion, the ideas of Brocklanders make no sense.

[relpax]

i hate labels so i am not going into the am i gay or not debate. i am more of a "here is what i like" kind of guy:

i love lbs.
i love to fuck lb ass.
i love passable lb and the amazon killers or fem boys are not my cup of tea. no offense to y'all who like em.
i am also told that i suck good cock and enjoy that too.
i have never had any kind of sex with a non lb male nor do i want to in the future.
i love to top. i have never been a bottom and my ass will likely stay an exit.
i love to eat pussy.
i love to fuck pussy.
i love to fuck gg ass too.
does this make me gay? who cares. i prefer to say i know what i like and while people try to label me....i am busy enjoying life.

[PigDogg]

I like anal sex from passable ladyboys

From?

You switching teams Brock?

[olekunde]

i dont give a fuck about labels? hmm..if so, why are those seemingly who dont give a fuck argue so much that they are not gay and lbs are girls.

it probably comes down to if we see lbs as girls or not.

ziggy refer to a study, and i wont disagree with a study. but there is one thing mr jackson probably havent calculated with when he did his study. that is that several of the gg lady friends of the lbs we fuck have known them since they were boys, and that they still consider them as boys with makeup. and i know for sure many lbs in thailand do the change from gayboy to lb just for financial reasons.
also, in thailand they use she for a lb, but i guess more out of thai-politeness rather than what they truly see lbs as what they really are.

so where is the line for a lb, when he is a girl and not a boy. how long must the transition have been before the lb is considering a girl.
and if we see them as girls, why dont we just garbage the term ladyboy, femboy, shemale etc, and just use girls?

my opinion is that since we like lbs we are all borderline bi to gay, even if a very few or none of us like to have sex with men with no makeup or silicon implants in the breasts. if there hadnt been so much predjudice against gays and shame being gay noone of us would have bothered argue about this fact.

[Guest]

Can't disagree more. But this is a topic there will never be an answer people agree with, but the majority in the forum say they are not gay, and isn't the most important "label" the one that each of ties to ourselves? So, I'm lost at all the posts that say, "Hey you guys are gay", when in the poll, the majority answer no. Like do you think you know more about people than themselves?

On the other topic...Of 400 LBs I know, I would say about 3 went from gay to LB to make money, and about 397 considered themselves of the female gender almost as far back as they can remember. They use "she" for LBs because they are considered to be to the feminine gender. It has nothing to do with politeness. Politeness is attached more to how they speak to them and look at them, but every Thai thinks of LBs as women. The Thai terms for LBs are "prapet thi soong" (a second kind of woman), "phet thi saam" (the third sex), "kathoey" (the third sex), and "nam fa jam leng" (transformed angels). There is no Thai word that refers to LBs as male.

[olekunde]

different experiences obviously. i am familiar with the thai terms for lbs, but i have rarely, if ever, heard other than katoey in daily speech. people can for all i care call them whatever they want, but they still will be gay in the eyes of the general population when seen together with lbs. but that is my experience. i never hang out with lbs, just fuck them. sitting in the bars or going outside, girls, working and non-working and tourists, they all almost fell off their barstools or twist their necks, pointing and laughing at this gay farang.
the lacmus test - would you tell your closest ones you enjoy sex with lbs? i guess only a few here would. and why? cos they, me, you are being scared of being labeled as gay. even if most of us here are very bold on this forum and say they dont care about labels, we dont as long as were not being labeled as gay or bi. so i disagree when you say it only matter to yourself. most people care alot what others think.

[rxpharm]

As ziggy says, there will probably be never agreement about this topic, but think about this: lbs are in direct competition with the gg bargirls for customers, so it makes sense that they would deride any customers who take out lbs. Gives them a rationalization why they were not picked, since the guy must be gay.

Anyway, my lb friends say basically this: if a guy likes lbs he is not gay if he likes to top. He might be bi if he likes to suck, and/or bottom. Of course if he likes postops then he is straight, lol!

[relpax]

re: oke's comment

the lacmus test - would you tell your closest ones you enjoy sex with lbs? i guess only a few here would. and why? cos they, me, you are being scared of being labeled as gay. even if most of us here are very bold on this forum and say they dont care about labels,  we dont as long as were not being labeled as gay or bi. so i disagree when you say it only matter to yourself. most people care alot what others think.

relpax response:
i think whether one will tell their family or friends is a poor standard to judge whether one is gay or not and/or afraid of being labeled.  i don't speak with those closest to me about my sexual activities with women or LB.  Is it because I am afraid of being labeled?  No, not really.  It is more because sex is my private business and I don't care to discuss it with my friends.  Perhaps it is the pseudo puritanism that is pervasive in the USA?  Basically, my friends and I don't sit around discussing the sexual activities that we like.  Rather, it is understood that your sex life is your business as long as no one is getting hurt by your actions.  Nuff said.  Keeping quiet about my LB and bar girl desires has so little to do with being labeled gay that it does not even register.  It is essentially a non issue.  I cannot speak for others though.

Also as a side note:  My father and I vacation in Thailand together on occasion.  Basically a father and son getaway for bonding kind of thing.  Now my father and I don't discuss my activities and I don't question his activities.  However, it does not stop me from bringing a LB up to my hotel room despite the fact that pop's is next door.  I don't broadcast it but I don't go ducking in elevators and hide either.  Basically I do what I want to do with whoever wants to do it with me.  Now this is probably more of an outlier story though.  I can't imagine this happening with most people.[I]

[Guest]

I'm not giving up on this one, because there are serious misconceptions here in my view.

I can point you to 10 books and studies that Thai people consider a man going with a LB not to be gay. Did you ever notice gays (male-male) going to bars, restaurants, holding hands, kissing maybe? VERY, VERY infrequently. I can only recall perhaps 3 times in 4 years. That is because Thais views male-male as dramatically different from male-LB. There is no doubt on this. You are simply incorrect if you think otherwise. Go to Thai family's house as some of us have. No one views the LB as a male. She is female, and as a farang boyfriend you are generally treated with respect, and not gay. Try doing that with a guy, and best 'o luck.

No.2 critical point. The USA is NOT Thailand. What is perceived in the US is not what is perceived in Thailand. I 100% agree that in the USA, male-LB will be considered gay by society. That is not the case in Thailand.

No.3 critical point. It is ludicrous to say people call LBs with feminine pronouns because it is being polite. Every part of society, family, schools, television use feminine pronouns because they view them as females (as they are). I am told that most writing refers to them as prapet thi soong, second kind of woman.

No.4 critical point. Why do some of you keep insisting your personal view of some of us? Because you like a woman with a dick, but you don't suck it, somehow you are hetero and others who do suck are gay? Give me a break. That is so crazy, I can't believe smart, informed guys about LBs, would say that. If many of us (and I think it's the majority) say that we only like LBs and never go with men, as was the initial result of this posting, why do keep ignoring that fact? Doesn't that point to the blatantly obvious, i.e., that many if not most LB lovers like the female gender, but in a LB, and NOT the male gender????

[Spitzbube]

I read this thread basically all the way through until the arguements got too repetative to warrent the time. Here's my 2 baht:

After being tremendously turned on by a few ladyboys, and having exceptional sex with them, I thought I might be gay. Gays are in no short supply, but Lbs are where I live. So i gave it a shot, and nothing. Even if i want to, I can't be gay. It's clear for me. You can't just decide to be gay even if you love lbys, adn you want lby cock. So the two have no real connetion for me. Good luck to the rest of you who are confused, but it appears only a few are.

[Guest]

Now that was a wonderful post, and basically sums up how I think about 90% of us feel (and the results of our experiments).

[olekunde]

consider these 2 facts:

have you seen thai boyfriends of lbs? they are gay. no straight thai man will openly display affection for a ladyboy, or have a lb as an gf.

in the movie iron ladies, the ladyboys are referred to as gays ..

western studies of thai culture many times over and over again misinterpet what is said contra what is unsaid...

[Guest]

consider these 2 facts:

have you seen thai boyfriends of lbs? they are gay. no straight thai man will openly display affection for a ladyboy, or have a lb as an gf.

in the movie iron ladies, the ladyboys are referred to as gays ..

western studies of thai culture many times over and over again misinterpet what is said contra what is unsaid...

Damn what are you smoking

I think we, including myself have overcomplicated this whole thing.

Simply put do you see a ladyboy as a women yes/no? If yes then by definition you cannot be considered be considered gay, clearly many of you have issues with your sexuality.

It is not about admitting to others it is about admitting to yourself. Enjoy life, we are the lucky ones to have been blessed with the knowledge of the 3rd sex. Forget about others call you and just be yourself and have fun.

[dommy6]

This topic always comes up this time of the year ever since the old yellow forum. Here is my 2 bobs worth. If you are married and your wife puts a strap on and fucks you up the arse does that make her a homosexual? If I lick her pussy does that make me a lesbian? If I tie a dog collar on her does that mean I am in to bestiality? If I tie her up and fuck her, does that make me a rapist? I like seeing what underwear a gg or lb have on. Does that make me a panty prowler? I think the answer to the above is NO.

Like Ozzie said its all about gender. Once you have that sorted out its all just fun and games and not bullshit labels.

I have no interest in sex with my own gender read male. And no I am not in denial. I know what TURNS ME ON what does not. The male body and mannerisms does not appeal to me.

Having said that I would not tell anyone else I know this as yes they would take it the wrong way. Especially females. They just cannot be trusted with this. They would twist it and turn it around to bite you back with it. And I certainly would not take as a good authority on what a bargirl€™s definition of being gay is. I mean we are talking about the some people here that if the price is right would do almost anything. Their opinion is just totally irrelevant to me. Any girls opinion on this matter actually

It all just comes back to stigma. It so sad that it would be almost acceptable to be gay than be an admirer of transgender. I for one have succumbed to this and don€™t feel good about it.

Just for the record I am not married and have done none of the above except for admiring sexy underwear (not jocks) and licking pussy yum