R.I.P

[relpax]

(sangabriel @ Apr. 10 2006,01:27) Dr. Housestaff,

I never said a "CD4<200 is necessary in order to get opportunitic infections like PCP". I used the word "typically." Again, common things are common and the most common reason for a LB prostitute, or really anyone these days, to be immunosuppressed is not because they have had an organ transplant and are on immunosuppressive medications.

Furthermore, Pneumocystis jiroveci can be considered a parasite. I think that you are confusing "parasite" with "protozoan". Go here to the CDC website if you don't believe me.

Cheers!

dr. housestaff...i love it.  you really have a nack for sarcasm even though it is unnecessary.  i won't go there though.

actually, i never said that it was you that it was your belief that a CD4<200 was necessary for opportunistic infections like PCP.  rather, i put this comment in for those people who either don't have the time or education or inclination to learn this information for themselves.  so i was trying to broaden the conversation and hopefully help others learn as well.   why is it necessary to inform people at all? well it seems pretty clear that many people did not get the initial PCP comment you made implying that Oy may had died from AIDS (hence, the tangent about PCP-Yaba link). So in an effort to continue to inform... it seemed rational to mention that there are other patient populations at risk for opportunitist infections in hopes that people won't jump to conclusions or make the wrong connections after learning that someone has this disease.

unfortunately, you took these as a comment on your level of knowledge and got defensive.  perhaps a chill pill would help you out occasionally.  perhaps, after reading your "flame on comment"...i should have typed in big letters that EVERYTHING I AM SAYING AFTER THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK ON SANGABRIEL, JUST IN CASE HE HAS VERY THIN SKIN AND WANTS TO BE SARCASTIC. thanks for the common things are common comment.  wow, that is pretty enlightening.  i mean i never, ever heard that comment on the wards.  shocker.

also, i do know the difference between protozoan and parasite.  shocking as it may sound the distinction is pretty basic micro 101, but categorization of specific organism was still up for debate when i last reviewed the literature.  this may be largely a question of semantics. let me explain...i am pretty old school in terms of medical terminology.  medical parasitology as it was taught within the last five years (since med school) has "traditionally been concerned only with the parasitic protozoa, helminths, and arthropods." Medical Microbiology by Jawetz et al.  Given that PCP is not a protozoan, helminth, or arthropod many (granted not all) specialists consider it a non parasite.   Although there is another camp which has valid points in that given the fastidious nature of PCP it is behaving like a parsite.  A major driving force from many in this camp was the miscategorization of PCP as a protozoa.  As I said above, I am more of a traditionalist in defining parasites and fall more in the former camp.  While some may quibble about whether or not PCP is a parasite, I think the medical establishment is pretty firm in placing it as a fungus.   Thus, I tend to call it a fungus and leave it at that.   caveat is microbiology is not my area.  Rather, I am a radiologist and I have been around long enough to know that these fields change quickly so what I say is not gospel.

[Guest]

(relpax @ Apr. 10 2006,01:57) dr. housestaff...i love it.  you really have a nack for sarcasm even though it is unnecessary.  

I appreciate you trying to broaden the conversation and the importance of this.

I'm really not a malignant guy but I can't ask anyone to take my sarcasm bareback so I'll use a latex filter before I shoot off my post.

[Guest]

(relpax @ Apr. 10 2006,01:57) also, i do know the difference between protozoan and parasite.  shocking as it may sound the distinction is pretty basic micro 101, but it was still up for debate when i last reviewed the literature.  this may be largely a question of semantics. let me explain...i am pretty old school in terms of medical terminology.  medical parasitology as it was taught within the last five years (since med school) has "traditionally been concerned only with the parasitic protozoa, helminths, and arthropods." Medical Microbiology by Jawetz et al.  Given that PCP is not a protozoan, helminth, or arthropod many (granted not all) specialists consider it a non parasite.   Although there is another camp which has valid points in that given the fastidious nature of PCP it is behaving like a parsite.  A major driving force from many in this camp was the miscategorization of PCP as a protozoa.  As I said above, I am more of a traditionalist in defining parasites and fall more in the former camp.  While some may quibble about whether or not PCP is a parasite, I think the medical establishment is pretty firm in placing it as a fungus.   Thus, I tend to call it a fungus.   caveat is microbiology is not my area.  Rather, I am a radiologist and I have been around long enough to know that these fields change quickly so what I say is not gospel.

You may be a "traditionalist in defining parasites" and even a radiologist, but at least you like beautiful women from Thailand!

That is something we both can agree on!

[relpax]

(sangabriel @ Apr. 10 2006,02:30) You may be a "traditionalist in defining parasites" and even a radiologist, but at least you like beautiful women from Thailand!

That is something we both can agree on!

agreed!

i am definitely an equal opportunity lb-lady lover.

peace out. i have a lunch date.


billy.

oh i forgot to mention. sorry to hear that oy died, regardless of the cause.

[Mai-Kee]

Cheers guys and thanks relpax for this info! Weiredest stuff can happen when you're doing the hard stuff.
She was a great girl, very feminine, sexy as hell, a sensitive character and fun to be with! The only real pre-op TS among the Indonesian working girls in Amsterdam.
We miss you, baby!

R.I.P. Monica!

MK

[Groundhog]

(sangabriel @ Apr. 08 2006,06:53)

(Bam @ Apr. 07 2006,16:07) There was a Thai Dr. Frankenstein, who was not even a real doctor... who was filling condoms with silicone he had bought in a hardware store and was implanting these "home made" breast implants into unsuspecting ladyboys.
I was really worried when Noon told me she was going in for silicone injections to give her hips... I told her not too do it however she still went ahead and did it...

They probably use clean needles to inject this bullshit too.

Right.

She might have died of an infection or pulmonary embolism from injecting industrial silicone.

If you hear hoofbeats, its probably not a zebra though.

I am going to stick my neck out and speculate that maybe she got an "infection" after a hot beef injection.

Being prostitutes who bareback anal with MSM, these girls are at risk for diseases common to prostitutes who bareback anal with MSM.

I don't think the forum will suffer if the possibility of HIV is discussed, and if anyone reading who remembers fucking Oy or Gai considers an HIV test.

I think these 'doctors' are amateurish, but not completely reckless. They would use new plastic veterinary needles (big) and would take pains to make sure their formula is clean. Clearly they don't want infection, and avoiding it is not a matter of money, it's just common sense.

On hitting a vein or artery, I would hope this is not a problem with this thick sort of silicon / peanut butter injection. With hormones, the proper way to inject is to aspirate ... push the needle into the body, and then first suck into the needle. If there is blood, pull out and start over; if there is no blood, then inject. Hormones need to be injected into the fat, where they slowly seep into the body over a few weeks time. If they get into a vein, the whole impact is felt at once (not good)

[mardhi]

I'm surprised nobody has even mentioned the possibility of Hep B or C - odds are its a lot more likely than HIV/AIDS and combined with oral hormones and alcohol - I'd say that this was a pretty likely cause of death. Somebody with a HIV/AIDS diagnosis would generally be on a downward curve for a number of years as against months, which would seem to be the case here. Not a doctor, so any expert feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - however liver failure will kill someone pretty quick.

[relpax]

(mardhi @ Apr. 10 2006,19:52) I'm surprised nobody has even mentioned the possibility of Hep B or C - odds are its a lot more likely than HIV/AIDS and combined with oral hormones and alcohol - I'd say that this was a pretty likely cause of death.     Somebody with a HIV/AIDS diagnosis would generally be on a downward curve for a number of years as against months, which would seem to be the case here.    Not a doctor, so any expert feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - however liver failure will kill someone pretty quick.

well like most questions there hedging than one would normally expect. while it is generally true that HIV/AIDS is thought of as a chronic disease (especially in the retroviral therapy age) there was recently a strain of AIDS/HIV discovered where the infected individuals progress to advanced disease and death at an alarming rate. this was widely published recently and involved cases in new york. however, to a first approximation you are correct that HIV/AIDS has a long natural history. also the so called super strain (emphasis i am not an AIDS specialist, i just play a doctor in life) to the best of my knowledge is not seen in SE asia. someone can look this up easily. if people are curious i can investigate..... might be a welcome break from reading this journal.

on the other hand, HBV and HCV also tend to have long disease courses. HCV is more likely to have chronic disease associated with it. both can cause liver failure. people can truck along with low level smoldering liver disease for years and fall off an edge quickly. they are also at risk for liver cancer (this is where i normally come in....we do tons of 4 phase liver studies to follow them). ironically these diseases share some of the same risk factors.

i don't feel it is my place to speculate on the cause of death. rather, it is more important to me that we pay respects to the fallen. does it really matter in the end what she died from? dead is dead.

[BAM]

Can an addict recover?

Experts say that crystal meth is one of the most addictive street drugs and one of the hardest to treat. Addiction counsellors say the relapse rate of 92 per cent is worse than cocaine.

I think I'll stick with smoking Ladyboy cock... only 91% addictive!

[Guest]

(relpax @ Apr. 11 2006,11:17) i don't feel it is my place to speculate on the cause of death.  rather, it is more important to me that we pay respects to the fallen.  does it really matter in the end what she died from?  dead is dead.

I think this is a good point about paying respects for the dead but I think it does matter what someone died of. For 2 reasons.

1) It is not normal for someone young to die prematurely. If there is something to be learned from this, the health of the wider population might benefit.

2) Unfortunately, seeing LB prostitutes is considered higher-risk than some other activities. If everyone is drinking from the same well, so to speak, and if someone unexpectedly drops dead of diarrhea, the others who drink from the well should take pause.

I sometimes think these katoeys in Thailand are (very unfortunately) canaries for the wider population. They face greater risk than the average Thai, so if one dies unexpectedly, it is troubling and we don't just owe the dead respect, we owe them the truth, so rather than just bury her and let go I think we should enquire if the cause of death might be more meaningful to others like her and have broader effects.

Ultimately, the bell does not toll just for Oy. It tolls for all of us. Just my two cents.

[Torurot]

The reason for the death is perhaps of interest to the Coroner, and immediate friends & family, but not to me. All activities come with risk. Participants in the P 4 P scene should know this. If they don't they have NO business playing at all!