Simsod Tongmun

[pacman]

This whole thing is weird. Something doesn't sound right. I have had the good fortune to meet Rick & his lovely lady friend & she appears to be anything but a conniving person. Quite the opposite, but I am still concerned about just what is going on here.

The 500,000 baht was never a realistic amount, it was mentioned for Rick's reaction. They never know unless they ask & Rick may have agreed. I am glad he saw through that. But going to her village & meeting no one but mum & dad? Why the secrecy unless they didn't want anyone talking to him. What is being hidden? Who does Rick need to be sheltered from?

I don't wish to cast aspersions on Rick's girl but there are many conversations going on in LOS these days as to how to get money, especially from wealthy farangs. My guess is she isn't behind this, that she wouldn't want to upset Rick for a second but someone may have influence over her & has come up with this idea. The 500K, the secret village visit, the need to pay to save face when it has nothing to do with face, combined with stories I have heard where farangs have been taken in by elaborate ruses dreamt up by locals. Things like meeting sick grandmothers who turned out to be no relation or meeting mum & dad who weren't, (as Bumpa mentioned), there are many precedents that should raise a warning flag here.

I am probably completely wrong & everything will turn out fine. But, having raised the question about this custom & its implications, I would urge Rick to keep his eyes & mind open to what is really happening. Again I stress that I can't see his girl wanting to do anything wrong but has she been coerced into this? It wouldn't be the first time & with the economic problems in LOS these days, I can't help but be suspicious.

Good luck Rick & I hope we hear about a happy conclusion to this. 500K!! Phewwwww....      

[spare wheel]

Rick,
Dont do it dude, your a great guy and i know a bar where all the girls love you. seen it with my own eyes !
we didn't get to much time to chat as it were a busy night and it was hard to see you under that mountain of lb flesh

I was asked for a similar amount by you know who + 10 baht gold for mama and to pay for the party etc, but i didn't last that long when she knew i my bank only gets deposits of my weekly salary which were to small

live the dream buddy and as a bm says on here, fall in love each night and fall out of love each morning, classic words


SW„¢

[deepthroat]

Rick you come highly recommended by some of the folks on this board who's judgement I value, so I hope I get to meet you and chat with you on LOS sometime soon.

With that said, I'm worried about where you are heading with this.

If you truly value your relationship with your wife, I really don't understand why you would continue to endanger your relationship by deepening your relationship with a thai prostitute that lives half a world away from you (depending upon where you're actually from). If you want to have sex outside of your marriage, there are MANY less expensive and risky and perhaps even more fun ways to do so then to continue getting more seriously involved in the life of a thai teen or young lady.

Are you seriously committing yourself to a path that will eventually result in the loss of your marriage? Because whether you realize it or not, that is where you have firmly begun to steer.

This is not congruent with your earlier statement about your marriage. I strongly urge you to reconsider where this is going. You cannot simultaneously travel on two so disparate paths for very long, as you can only straddle the gulf in between a little bit longer before they diverge too far.

[kahuna]

Damn, you guys are suck pessimists...

Next you're gonna be telling Rick money don't grow on trees and their ain't really no Santa Claus...

Seriously, Rick...By asking the question that is the original subject of this thread, you're telling me
that you don't know jack shit (and don't tell us that he's your neighbor) about Thais and Thai customs...
If I was you, which thank God I ain't, I would spend a little time trying to educate myself before I started
forking over the cash...That's all I got to say...Your marriage arrangement and love life really ain't our business...

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go outside and tend to my money tree...Santa will be coming soon...

[Jake_Sully]

Good advice in any situation really!

[El_hefe]

Gents, this is a fascinating thread about something I'm not at all familiar with, but I could see how Rick, or many of us, could get caught up in it. Thanks for the frank deconstruction of this situation.

[Rick Shaw]

I am unfortunately stuck in a position where for the next week I wil have little access to a computer or privacy to use it - but I will bring people up to date with the situation in a week's time.

Damn it's getting complicated!

[guydesavoy]

(Rick Shaw @ Nov. 22 2010,08:16) Damn it's getting complicated!

What did you expect ?

[Socrates999]

Not complicated at all...

First off, sinsod is not a dowry. The best Western term would be bride price. Dowry is paid to bridegrooms only.

If you want this to be a considered conversation on this board, you really have to reveal things like her age, how many kids, married before, worked in a bar, etc. Example: price for a divorced 30 year old farm girl with a kid: NADA! Price for a lunatic, hi-so actress/beauty star, well known throughout Thailand and maybe beyond, connected to a powerful family: maybe 10 million.

Where does your girl stand on this scale? You really want to open her character and history for public discussion?

Sin sod is paid at the wedding itself- and that's means a formal wedding, registered at the amphur, papers, legal, etc. Tie-a-string-around-your-wrist and get-splashed-by-monks-bearing-whiskey in the big room at the village hovel has as much value as it sounds: again, NADA. Asking for sin sod at a local non-binding event is out and out SCAM.

It consists of money and gold laid out for everyone to ooh and ahh over. A decent family would return it the next day or use it to buy a house for the 2 of you.

The alleged reason is to demonstrate your financial stability and ability to support her. Considering the quality of the local choices, the mere fact that you were able to buy a ticket to come here puts you orders of magnitude above anyone else she knows in terms of financial success.

Tell her you want to accommodate Western and Eastern wedding traditions: you'll put up he dosh, but her family pays for all wedding expenses, thus, break even. Or offer to put 20 checks out on the table, each made out for 10,000 baht. She can trade one in for cash each year she stays with you.

Sin sod is mostly a low class scam or a hi-so look-at-me show. Either way, it's a load of shit.

If anything above is unclear, ask again and I'll let you know how I really feel about this.

Or, just be da foo. Your money, up to you.

[Bumpa STIKKA]

 Good post which sums it all up for me.

Hopefully for the original poster, this will now 'un-complicate' things for him!  

[tropical]

Fantastic post Socrates,
I was thinking when i read the first page that surely someone will put the Op in the know.
I couldnt have done it as succinctly as Socrates, but I can let you know that 2 of my mates have so far carried on with this garbage, although, to more realistic values to save face with everyone.

Actually they were both great weddings and very cheap by Western standards.
The first guy paid something along these lines, 3000.00 Baht to the Monks in an envelope, 5000.00 baht to his wifes family, and shouted all friends and family to a meal/drinks/music at a local restaraunt approx 25,000 Baht. Apparently the Sin Sod of 5000.00 Baht was just a show of respect for the family as they realised his wife was 38 years old and had worked in the P4P industry. (Not my point of view, but how these people consider these things)

The second Guy, paid for the wedding, all the trappings, and everyone else who needed to jump on the band wagon for the celebration. The amount he told me was around $3000.00 AUD approx 85,000.00 Baht. i am not sure how this was broken down in relation to Sin sod / wedding costs. His wife was a 26 year old former P4P girl.
In both cases the family were very happy as they realised neither of these women would get a satang from a Thai guy.
As Socrates points out, this was for a proper wedding commitment, not an engagement party.
I think your girl is just feeling you out, time to run, and do not even consider this bullshit from her or her family..

[Rick Shaw]

In summary, there will be no simsod.

I spent an uncomfortable couple of days having explained that I could and would not pay half a milllion baht to her parents and asked her to go back to renogiate a more reasonable sum of money. This went down like a lead balloon, but my GF agreed to do it.

Anyway, I got an e-mail from my GF saying that her parents had dropped the idea of having a simsod which I take to mean that it would have been a loss of face for her to ask for a lower price on my behalf, so she just said that I wouldn't do it. Which was fortuitous because in the meanwhile, I took advice from a legal friend at home who basically said I would be mad to go ahead with it.

This whole episode has cast an unfortunate gloom over our relationship. Now it is a matter of waiting to see what happens. Still, an interesting interlude and one which opened up a whole new area of Thai culture for me. I hope that it has been useful for others as well.

[Bumpa STIKKA]

Thanks for your update, RS. Like you say - it may be of use to others who may end up in a similar situation.

...one which opened up a whole new area of Thai culture for me...

I'm certain that the culture of opportunism is universal!

[guydesavoy]

(Rick Shaw @ Nov. 30 2010,16:27) In summary, there will be no simsod. ...I took advice from a legal friend at home who basically said I would be mad to go ahead with it.... I hope that it has been useful for others as well.

Same same advice as you received here  

"Someone Saved My Life Tonight" (Elton John)...

Cheers RS  

[Road Runner]

Thanks for the update RS. I hope that the gloom disperses quickly.

RR.