Thai Student Protests

[flamingofarmer]

My heart goes out to the Thai people.
The police / government are constantly trying to suppress them and keep them from voicing their want of freedom and a real democratic government not a fake one. I read a quote that said you can cut down all the flowers but spring will still come. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better but the power is in the people.

[George Pill]

More power to them. I hate this slavery culture working 12 hours a day everyday with no medicals or vacation pay.The king is a thief and transferred all government money to his own personal offshore bank. Same for Queen Elizabeth. What the hell does she/he need so many billions when they have free room and boarding? The military made a deal with his father to let them control government as long as he is protected as king. I hope the military doesn't dare shoot them as liberals. Still no voting plan for a successor. People who starve will revolt as they have in all governments in Asia. Biden will become our next President, but will he be able to save us from C and restore the economy? He, too, is an old man. Better to be prepared for Kamala to be sworn in as President if Biden has a serious medical problem. This 2020 is an amazing year of serious events that could cripple and bankrupt the world. Didn't realize tourism was so important to the economies of nations. For Thailand let the people explode and fight for decent human rights and freedom from slavery. FIGHT CORRUPTION AND AN INDECENT GOVERNMENT. Just like France and the USA did in history.

[Rockheart]

The King of Thailand is the richest Monarch in world with a net worth of about 50 billion USD.

Queen Elizabeth is not a Billionaire, she is worth $500 million USD. The royal family receives a payment of about $100 million USD from the UK government for the upkeep and expense related to the royalty. The taxpayers of the UK gladly fund the royalty by choice., it is not actually free room and board.
The Queen basically works 24 hours a day 365 days a year. She is not taking advantage of anyone.

Not clear what makes the protesters "Liberals". Not all protesters are "Liberals". Protestor does not equal Liberal, it is people demonstrating for a common cause.
Problem with Thai protests is they usually don't have a common message or leaders. Just many people show up to protest.
They want things to change but no one has the power to do it.

Part of the problem is Chinese influence and the Thai Swamp want authoritative government to control the people. As Chinese influence grows stronger and the USA influence shrinks in the area, you may find Thailand not turning to democracy.

You could draw comparisons between Thaksin Shinawatra and Donald Trump. Two successful business men than wanted to make a difference in their countries.
They spoke to the people and won with populist victories. In both cases the establishment swamps came after them because they were losing their payoffs and illegal backroom dealings and kickbacks. In the case of the USA democracy was slightly more powerful than the swamp, but not by much.
In Thailand the swamp is far more powerful than democracy and the army is generally part of it. Twice the establishment in Thailand ran these people out of town after "fair" elections.

So don't expect fair elections of any kind in Thailand any time soon.
There may eventually be some restricted elections after the pandemic is long gone.

If Biden does win, you may find Southeast Asia becomes completely controlled by China.
He is like a Manchurian candidate for China.

[Escierto]

There are two kinds of people. Those who fear the future or those who embrace it.

I learned to speak Spanish fluently so I have no fear of immigrants or people from Latin America. Latin women are very attractive.

I went back to school and got a degree in computer science when the world was turning to computers.

Afraid of the Chinese? Live in China and learn Mandarin. Chinese women are very attractive.

[Rockheart]

I have no fear of Latin Americans. I have no fear of Chinese Citizens.
Everything does not boil down to race, some things are bigger than that.
Why does everything have to boil down to some type of racism, xenophobia or hate?
This is what people do when they have no argument, they accuse you of intolerance somehow.
Attacking the person, not the subject. Somehow i am intolerant for being against the Chinese Communist party.
Why not discuss the subject instead of attacking me??? You are not better than me, just different.

Immigrants are absolutely fantastic but this has nothing at all to do with immigrants. I come from immigrants.
Chinese in no way are any kind of minority, it fact they are the majority.
A race and culture war is how they are tearing our countries apart, plus shipping us deadly drugs and stealing our secrets.

I fear the Chinese Communist party. They ARE actually racist and authoritarian and believe in genocide.
Again people are brainwashed to hate the greatest democratic system on earth in favor of Chinese communist rule.
Why do you think Chinese and other immigrants come to our country? Not because it is like China or their home country.
They come to get away from these horrible places and live the American dream.

If you think Thailand would be the same under Chinese control, it won't be.
I like Thailand because it is Thailand, if it just becomes a Chinese colony, it won't be worth a shit.
Thailand has become what it is mainly from British and US influence.

China is controlled by elites. The Chinese people control nothing in their own country.
This has nothing to do with learning Mandarin. It won't matter what you speak.
English and Latin are the languages of science and technology, that is very hard to change.

Lots of women are very attractive. Chinese women are attracted to well off westerners.
We won't be of any interest to Chinese women anymore if we lose that status.
Plus just because China takes over why does that mean you have to date Chinese women.
There is far more Chinese men than women due to gender discrimination in China.
So more likely Chinese will be dating western women while we pull our puds and work in government sweat shops.

China would oppress and kill transgenders. LGBT rights are zero in China.

You don't appreciate freedom until you lose it.
People are so brainwashed they don't understand what they are losing.

What is happening in the west now is very similar to the Chinese Cultural Revolution...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/11/the-cultural-revolution-50-years-on-all-you-need-to-know-about-chinas-political-convulsion

All hail the leader comrades.

[George Pill]

Go for it! Fight for your rights to free education, English teachers, decent living wages, affordable/free medicals, democratic elections, and everything you should have gotten years ago.

https://www.pattayamail.com/news/pattaya-protests-set-to-resume-sunday-afternoon-330340

[flamingofarmer]

I am afraid to say this, but I can see that the thai govt, and from the actions of the monarchy (really its a trickle down with force), would like thailand to operate under strict controls and censorship similar to the CCP., they just need to get organized enough to do it in the guise of thier current democratic charade. Evidence is the systematic shutdown of up to 4 ( just today) non-mainstream social media- news outlets ( who were reporting the events, including live feeds) as well as trying to shut down Telegram message app as it's being utilized by the youth groups.
Additionally, shutting down mass transit to try to stop the people of Bkk from their right to gather and protest citing the temporary emergency decree making it temporarily illegal to be in groups larger than 5 people. It's like my neighbors kids changing rules as they play together to constantly have the upper handed control. The current King had rewritten the constitution to give himself dictatorship like powers so as far as I can tell, he is the only one who can affect and permanent future changes. I am not a betting man, but I would surmise that the odds of this occurrence are very high.
But I beleive there will be no end to the will of the people to get out and protest until something gives, but that could go either way, when the most serious tipping point is upon them. Until then, Thailand will be a no-go for many people planning vacations.

Power To The People!

[P&G]

I am afraid to say this, but I can see that the thai govt, and from the actions of the monarchy (really its a trickle down with force), would like thailand to operate under strict controls and censorship similar to the CCP., they just need to get organized enough to do it in the guise of thier current democratic charade. Evidence is the systematic shutdown of up to 4 ( just today) non-mainstream social media- news outlets ( who were reporting the events, including live feeds) as well as trying to shut down Telegram message app as it's being utilized by the youth groups.
Additionally, shutting down mass transit to try to stop the people of Bkk from their right to gather and protest citing the temporary emergency decree making it temporarily illegal to be in groups larger than 5 people. It's like my neighbors kids changing rules as they play together to constantly have the upper handed control. The current King had rewritten the constitution to give himself dictatorship like powers so as far as I can tell, he is the only one who can affect and permanent future changes. I am not a betting man, but I would surmise that the odds of this occurrence are very high.
But I beleive there will be no end to the will of the people to get out and protest until something gives, but that could go either way, when the most serious tipping point is upon them. Until then, Thailand will be a no-go for many people planning vacations.

Power To The People!

I am afraid this have become the rule in all kind or regimes even the most democratic ones. People who can get power want power either to make big money for themselves or they just want power for power. In the USA, the power is restricted by one rule : if Trump wins the next election, that will be his last term at the white house. I don't know details about UK.
@George: I haven't seen how France has been a leader in the fight against corruption in history even in recent history. The world won't be bakrupted. We living through a major crisis that will end with a nex deal. New deal doesn't mean the world will be better after (it might have been when new deals occured in the past). Some people and some countries will be weaker and poor after the crisis and other people and countries will be richer. I still hope the winners will be those who kept a positive attitude and decided fair policies. Perhaps the USA are paying for something that went wrong decades ago and made them drift to a bad situation. I just hope that China won't use the crisis to become more powerful.
I don't know which people say "wait and see".

[flamingofarmer]

I think this is getting off track here and I should like to get it grounded for clarity. I think my passion for the Thai people has got me dialed up a bit and I have expressed my enthusiasm for the pro democracy rallies in this thread beyond the original intent of the discussion I started.
I guess my whole point of this thread was to talk about the ebb and flow of the chances of, and respectively the timing of, any return to Thailand "we" might be able to able to enjoy, as well as what the cause of the delay or possible openings are as the come up.This was to be info gathered on the web shared here.

The spirit of this thread is not to become a political debate. I do, obviously, support the current democracy and accountability protests, however I will refrain from discussing my political ideals, per say, on this format, or in this thread; this thread is not a reddit discussion.
Conversely, if a member wishes to start a more political debate, thats cool, but not here please.

The issues of a health emergency that we started off with, affecting the ability to enter Thailand ( or travel at all), now have all become so intertwined with topics of political corruption and oppression; it is all becoming very disheartening and frankly, uninteresting endless debate of cloudy discussions consisting of ambiguous facts viewed through distortions of mass and social media. Again, recall that this all started as a health risk that led to travel restrictions. There will come the time we can travel again freely, but it will be more later than sooner.

My current understanding is Thai govt is setting up travel bubbles with China, however I am unclear if this is going on or not and I am not sure, as I said earlier in the thread, Thailand is desirable as a travel destination.

It is sort of is a bummer about the current situation as I am starting to loose intrest in the idea of even travelling at all, anywhere, in the environment created by the pandemic, but maybe thats the cabin fever talking (a metaphoric fever not a real one). The only constant to all this is time. I am hopeful.

So we wait. I still have time

[bigmtsl]

P&G, Prime Ministers (PM) can serve as many terms, usually 3-5 years, as the electorate want them. A number of criteria need to happen.

1. The Party (conservative, liberal, socialist, whatever the name) they lead wants them to be their leader.

2. The are elected in their riding by the voters. Unlike a Republican system where people around the country vote for the individual to be the president a Constitutional Monarchy does not do that.

3. The Party with the most seats in the House of Commons, 50% + 1, will form the government and the Party leader, if elected in his riding, will become the PM. If he is not elected then a number of things can happen. He steps down as Party leader and an intern one is appointed until a new leader is chosen. If, he is currently elected he becomes the PM if not he sits on the sidelines until a by-election is called due to a vacancy. Sometimes a Member of Parliament will step aside and the party leader will take over his riding and then can sit as PM. Kind of a screwed up way of doing things imo.

Sometimes a minority government is formed as no party got a majority. So, the Party with the most seats is the one that will get to form a government either on their own or a coalition with other parties.

4. The Party has to continue to win the General elections. If they lose sometimes the leader will step down and a new leader is elected by Party members. If the leader doesn't step down they can try again next election, and sometimes they form the government again and they become PM again.

The like below explains how elections are done in Canada which is similar to the UK, Australia and other constitutional monarchies. I will caution you not to assume that the Canadian approach is the same elsewhere as Constitutional Monarchies have evolved over the years and each country has variations. For example, the UK and Canada have a Senate where sitting Senators are appointed by the current PM and can serve until age 75 (Canada). Australia used to follow that approach but changed it years ago and its Senators are elected, like in the US, though they only serve one term of six years. NZ had a Senate but abolished it in 1951.

Sir Robert Walpole was PM of the UK for 20+ consecutive years. His Party won four elections in a row.

MacKenzie King was PM of Canada for a total of 21 years but spread over 3 majority governments and 3 minority governments. His government was also voted out for 5 years until they were re-elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Canada