Down with George Bush!

[JaiDee]

(Torurot @ May 29 2008,20:20) Now your awake  

yes, even ex-pornographers have to sleep a few hours once in a while!

[Torurot]

I still want to know when the USA is going to allow an independent international body to do a full inspection of ALL USA WMD, biologicals etc.

What Americans can't understand is hypocrisy (irony is a little iffy as well) , and why it pisses off most other nations so much. I'm sure there are things that piss Americans off about the "rest of us", but America inc just doesn't "get" hypocrisy. They do it, they just don't get it!

[azza33]

(Torurot @ May 29 2008,19:44) Azza, you have inaccurate "reminiscences" & selective amnesia on the UN inspectors.

Tororut please read what i wrote... you are arguing a very different thing here....

Resolutions breaches are not inspectors....

1) we know the inspectors found nothing much before
2) we know they found very little after the invasion
3) The world wrongly believed Iraq had WMD before the invasion
4) The world could not agree on what action should be taken given the Inspectors were not getting full access, but when they did inspect, see again point 1
5) The US rightly or wrongly, believed WMD were stored in special bunkers, mobile facilities, in Palaces that weren't allowed to be inspected (propaganda who knows?? maybe??)
6) US and other allies believed that Iraq breached the UN resolutions and could justify going into Iraq
7) US put forward very average evidence that WMD did exist, drew some ordinary conclusion, used non trustworthy sources and pitched it to the world
8) World could not agree
9) US grew impatient and was satisfied that the resolution had been breached and there was no need to have to justify to everyone that something existed, they would go it alone, if necessary, and make sure the "threat" was removed.

Now Tororut, how is my amnesia?

And for amusement, some of the funniest footage i ever saw from Iraq was the UN inspectors at the front gate of a facility getting held up, while some trucks sped out he back gate with interesting stuff on board.


Now i was hoping in fact that someone put forward a reasonable argument over the legalities of whether any country had the right to invade Iraq on the resolution breaches... not mention i had a bad memory

And secondly, was Iraq pushed and shoved into a corner such that they were made to appear to have been breaching the resolutions by the US to allow the invasion "under UN ......"


For the record, IMHO, John Howard was a steadfast leader of a good government that had the balls to follow its principles and do what it thought was right. Perhaps you can argue Mr Howard was too emotionally involved as he was in the US during the 911 attacks.

[JaiDee]

(Torurot @ May 29 2008,20:43) I still want to know when the USA is going to allow an independent international body to do a full inspection of ALL USA  WMD, biologicals etc.  

hey, why should we??

 all we need to do is talk to some people who were treated badly by Saddam, isn't that good enough for you?

 to quote the brilliant Alan the Chef

''I spoke to an Iraqi in the Philippines who fled Saddams Iraq and he told stories about entire families being eliminated because they spoke against Saddam''

Oh My God!!   whole  families wiped out??    And.....  us bombing  whole families since March, 2003; that is NOT wiping them out??  Again, you just can not  make up that  kind of stupidity and waking up to it is good for a laugh and a real head-shaker, I must say.


I am with you on the hypocrisy of right-wing morons like Alan, Torurot..... they want us to go in and defend the honor of people being brutalized under Saddam, but when millions die in North Korea, should we go in there?   .....  no way!    "well, I have never spoken to any of THEM in the Philippines,  so they must be doing just fine over there!",  while the peasants eat grass just to stay alive and if you publicly speak out against Kim you end up in prison for 30 years or dead.  Jeeeez, talk about living with your head in the sand.    


 Just curious.....   Mao killed over 60 MILLION chinese people during his reign ..... since his demise many million more have been brutalized, imprisoned for speaking out, the Tiananmen square revolt crushed, no freedom of movement, families seperated, and just based on sheer numbers living there they have lost at least 20 times the amount of the Iraqi's who were  lost under Saddam to equally-brutal [and yet less-visible] regimes.

So, based on Alans way cool intellectual way of thinking, exactly why haven't we invaded the Chinese mainland yet??

[azza33]

[azza33]

[JaiDee]

Kim is the man!

20,000 concubines at his beck and call the past few years.

Families torn apart .... any and all opposition brutally crushed .... freedom of speech? Naa..... own a car or motorbike? naaaa..... watch anything on the TV [the 5% who actually own one] besides propaganda speeches from that weirdo? Naaa..... not allowed...

*The key reason you will never meet any North Koreans in the Philippines or anywhere else in the world besides, well, inside North Korea? Because they live in the most dictatorial nation on the globe and have ZERO freedoms and they can not escape!!

So, when do we launch 'shock and awe' on Pyongyang?

[azza33]

Jaidee, i watched a really interesting show on north korea once....

I think madalyn albright (sic) was the us person who was meant to meet Kim Jong Il, and of course she was "briefed" on how he was a stupid, sick and perverted, porno watching type bla bla bla

And after she met the man she said that he was very charming, and at the meeting was very switched on and new exactly what was going on.... you get the impression she was actually quite impressed by Kim Jong il.....


Oh as an aside... re: Nth & Sth Korea history... try and get hold of a movie called shilmido

Great value and interesting as its based on the history of the north and south assasination attempts on their leaders.

[alan1chef]

So, JaiDee, I am a right wing lunatic for wanting people of the world to live in freedom? So be it. You would rather ingnore everyone and just let them rot in the hell in which they live under the guise that we have no right to involve ourselves in other countries. Yet, you provide absolutely no solution to deal with the North Korea's of the world. What is your answer JaiDee? Just let it be?

[alan1chef]

Is it right that the ladyboys on AsianTS get paid a paltry $150 for their photos and get counseled to become prostitutes in order to get themselves out of poverty?

[JaiDee]

(alan1chef @ May 29 2008,22:35) So, JaiDee, I am a right wing lunatic for wanting people of the world to live in freedom? So be it. You would rather ingnore everyone and just let them rot in the hell in which they live under the guise that we have no right to involve ourselves in other countries. Yet, you provide absolutely no solution to deal with the North Korea's of the world. What is your answer JaiDee? Just let it be?

there is no answer..... life is tough

  we can't be the policemen of the world, how did we get that title and why should we have it?

       So, you want to go into every country where they have a bad dictator and kick ass?  Why didn't we send troops into..... get ready to read here..... Cuba? Liberia? [repeated 2 or 3 times now] China and North Korea? Rwanda? Somalia?  Nicaragua?  Panama?  Chile....you think Pinochet was a nice guy and never ruined any families?  Sudan .... no one is dying in Darfur right now? Libya- Khadafi...he never ruined families either?  Sierra Leone circa 2001?

     This is just a partial list.... bad guys  kill their own people in countries around the world ....get ready for it;  EVERY DAY, including right this very moment in Burma where the military dictatorship is keeping valuable aid from dying people and spreading it around to their troops instead; in your mindset we should be marching on Yangon now, right? It makes NO sense if you say "naaa" to that but "yes" to Iraq, it's the same freaking thing! In your way of thinking, giving peace and freedom to the entire world, we'd be in about 20 wars right now....we don't even have enough troops for 2!

   Chef, you are the one who does not understand .... our Prez  Mister Cheney and his pals at Halliburton went into Iraq because they said Iraq had  WMD's  ....which for you brain-cell-challenged people means Weapons of Mass destruction,  which we were concerned would kill US and the Isreali's and other democratic countries; he and his lunatic texas pals didn't give a rats ass about the people that Saddam was terrorizing!  

         The reason you stated was NOT the reason we went in there at all but since we found NO WMD's and NO links to Al Qeada  people on the right can justify a nonsensical war by saying    "well damn, he was killing his own people after all so we had to go in".    Strange, as since that time many MORE Iraqi's have died than ever as well as 4100 Americans and 20,000 more wounded!

  Before March, 2003, not one person was killed at the hands of an Iraqi..... now we are in a war we can't get out of and young Americans dying every day.... as a patriotic Yank, you like seeing them traded off for some Iraqi's you never knew who had the misfortune of growing up in the wrong country?


    More proof that the Chef has a double-digit  IQ and should just stay back in the kitchen somewhere flipping burgers;  ''ladyboys on AsianTS  get counseled to become prostitutes in order to get themselves out of poverty'' ......  classic idiocy from a simple-minded fool; the ladyboys on AsianTS are prostitutes long before they ever become models here!

      But strangely enough, by becoming models here, many latch on to uneducated fools like you and then get themselves out of poverty .....  appearing here helps the models more than it hurts them and many get themselves OUT of the life, not INTO it! I have never known ONE person who said to a photographer here; "You know, I need some counseling on a profession; would you know how I can become a hooker somewhere?"   But way cool anyway, taking a personal pot shot at the site and making a point about something not even closely related to this topic just so you can  draw attention away from the fact that you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT regarding the subject at hand.

             where the hell did this guy come from?    

[pacman]

For all manner of perverse reasons I have really enjoyed this thread.
All posters have made good points & JD can fight it out with alan1chef, but I can't let go the subject of why the US went into Iraq.

The US administration was taken for a ride by exiled Iraqis who would tell any lie to get back at Saddam Hussein.
Iraq has been divided forever between the various sects of Sunnis & Shi'ites. Saddam himself was born into a Ba'ath family & ruled the only way a divided country can be - with an iron fist, thus creating many enemies.

Take a US President determined to make his mark on history by being seen to go after the muslims, any muslim, add the suggestion of WMDs that could be turned against the US, incomplete reports from the UN weapons inspection team - you have all the ingredients for a catastrophe.

Once Saddam's enemies knew what the US wanted to hear in order they would overthrow their sworn enemy, they made up their stories accordingly.

Hans Blix could not confirm weapons in Iraq but when he spoke of sites that had hurriedly been emptied, of evidence of precursor chemicals being found there wasn't much more that needed to added.

However there was one more ingredient that sealed Saddam's fate - the personal hatred of George W.
There is a wonderful piece of video footage taken during his father's re-election campaign where young George is screaming at his father, the President, for not finishing the job.
Finding himself in a position to show his father that the idiot son could do what dad didn't & still seeking approval from a demanding parent, George W couldn't resist.

How such a bunch of fuck-heads can lead the world into this most destabilising conflict, getting wrong every strategic decision & bankrupting the largest economy in the process will go down in history as the stupidest way ever to run a war.

They stressed for weeks how they could get into Baghdad, what risks they faced, then when they drove straight in with barely a shot being fired, found themselves caught in a guerilla war campaign they had no idea how to fight.

The Allied leader General Tommy Franks directed the battle from a resort in Florida FFS ...... must have won a purple heart for nearly being stabbed with a cocktail umbrella.

It is far from being over but if the new POTUS pulls everyone out things will be far worse than ever.
If the middle-east didn't hate the Americans enough before they sure do now.

Plus most of the support for the US in the West has all but disappeared.

[jimslim]

When you think about it who controls Iraq its a bit like the British weather ..............

Sometimes sunni sometimes shi'ite

[janabiyah]

(PigDogg @ May 29 2008,17:51)

(janabiyah @ May 28 2008,16:27) Weapons of Mass destruction???

Can anyone paint me a scenario as to what really happened here.

Our most senior politicans got it wrong, clearly they were misled and duped.

But the real question is Who misled them and why?

A beer for the best answer

The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld crowd thought it would be in the American interest, of benefit to American business, not the kid right out of high school sent to fight.

To gain support of both the American public and other allies, they used selective intelligence using the tidbits of info that supported WMD and ignoring and discouraging info that did not support their position.

But Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld got it wrong. It was not in the American interest to invade Iraq. It was not a wham bam thank you mam like Afghanistan.

Iraq was in zugzwang before the invasion with no fly zones etc. And Saddam, although no friend of the USA, provided stability to the country and therefore the region.

George Sr got it right. George Junior did not.

Sounds like a very credibke scenario.

I owe you a beer PD.

Hope you can wait, unless you want to swing by Dublin?

Live the dream

[sev7en]

(alan1chef @ May 29 2008,22:35) So, JaiDee, I am a right wing lunatic for wanting people of the world to live in freedom?

For many reasons, chef. Rightwing nutter is one of them and statements like this "
"The owners of this website better be damn grateful to Americans because they would not be here without us."