Egypt - a new dawn...

[pacman]

The foreign policy aim of the US to "spread democracy & free the people" is America's con-trick on the Third World.

That has been their way of instituting control by installing the rulers they want. Shit, they even do it in their own country, read how George W stole his first election. (And didn't that work out well.)

The Egyptians will reject any leader who wants to maintain current arrangements with the US & Israel despite the military's declaration they will honour them. Whoever emerges as the new leader will be pro-Islam first & pro-Palestinian second.

Under the guise of Free & Democratic elections, the military will pre-select those who best represent their ambitions or, having the power given to them on a plate, they may decide not to surrender it.

One outcome from this will be the immediate banning of Israeli naval ships & submarines from the Suez Canal. That will only be the start of Israel's problems under a revitalised regime, wait till Hamas gets hold of arms through the newly opened border.

[geezer]

(Torurot @ Feb. 13 2011,14:59) Democracies should be accepted without outside interference.  Gaza a perfect example of what I'm thinking of.

Democracy Hamas style. This was taken pretty soon after Hamas took control of Gaza from Hamas. And yes it is Palestinian on Palestinian

Warning Graffic content

Hamas in Gaza

[kahuna]

At least it gives all of you who hate the USA and everything American another chance to let us all know just how you feel about us...

[Tomcat]

The shortage of food and rampant food prices was one of the main reasons that this kicked off , as it did in Tunisia. These two Countries are in the World top 10 who are in the food shortage list as are Algeria and Morroco who will be the next countries to flare up.

The idle Middle classes are unhappy and have time on their hands to demonstrate , where as the poor cant afford to stop working

Anyway no one can Prove that Democracy is best , there are no axioms in Poltics and if say that they should install a King it is just as valid as some bearded Marxist or Brotherhoods rantings to the contrary.

anway
its the food price and shortage that is the real problem and its not going away any time soon and not confined to the Middle East

[Socrates999]

What do y'all think about the idea being floated around that Julan Assange of Wikileaks really helped to get this ball rolling by releasing all of those cables and exposing the corrupt bastard in Tunisia for what they are? Could be he's the best thing for "democracy" since, well, since ...?

I heard a of poll yesterday regarding America's stability/security/safety (read control) vs its support for democracy, in whatever form it takes. Seems most (72%, 2007) are willing to forgo freedom for security.

As TJ (or somebody) said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (or some variation of that phrase.)

[Bumpa STIKKA]

Wikileaks plays a part.

The biggest thing it's got going for it is that people who read the stuff on there want it to be true whether it is or not...

...also; despite Assange being demonized by the media and the panicking political ruling elite, he still is more trusted and respected than any politician alive.

[strocube]

I'm sure Wikileaks and Assange had something to do with what is happening, but they are just one of many things that have contributed to the outpouring of resentment against the status quo.
Whether or not this is the best thing for democracy remains to be seen. The wheel is still in spin, as Bob Dylan said.
Chomsky and other left leaning intellectuals are predicting a very heavy right wing crack down in the U.S., so who knows.

[pacman]

A comment about Wikileaks & truth - they aren't expressing their own opinion, they are passing on leaked information which may or may not be true.

In the case of the 250,000 leaked cables from US Embassies around the world, it really isn't the point as to whether they contain 100% correct facts, it is that everyone gets to read just what the US' spy network & ambassadors actually think about what is going on.

The revelations about corrupt governments, crooked leaders, secret deals, these are the stuff that spark revolutions, as we are just starting to see.

It is the ultimate fantasy for gossip lovers anywhere. Never in my life did I imagine I would get to read what the US representatives really think of their host nation & its leaders.

Wikileaks has hinted that we have seen nothing yet so who knows what future revolutions lay in store. It is impossible to view these events as anything other than historic & Julian Assange has become a figure of historical importance. It remains to be seen if he is remembered as hero or villain.

[Torurot]

Kahuna will have conniptions  

This was a reasonable run through the "democracy" options.  Only a partial quote. Rest at the link.

"Time for a New Doctrine
Democracy and the US Dilemma in Egypt
http://counterpunch.org/aruri02142011.html
By NASEER ARURI  February 14, 2011

Since September, 2001, US administrations have advanced the democracy slogan as a remedy for the malignancy which produced the debacle of September 11. The neo-conservatives of the Bush era had posited that the culture that produced the perpetrators would have to be rehabilitated, if not restructured, with potent injections of democratic principles and reformist values. The problem with this cure, however, is that democracy is not a commodity suitable for export and import, which entail a certain degree of financial or strategic gain. The would be exporter-the United States-and the importer, in this case the Arabs, are not engaged in a reciprocal arrangement for mutual gain.

A colonialist legacy and a deficient political culture have militated against the infusion of democracy in the Arab world for centuries. As long as the region was coveted by foreign powers bent on domination, democracy was kept off the real agenda indefinitely. Democracy entailed independence while colonialism assumed dependency. The essence of this dichotomy has not changed since the forcible removal of independent-minded local leaders by foreign powers began in the 1830s.

What type of democracy does Washington plan to export to the Arabs? It is neither the type associated with egalitarianism and social justice nor is it the political western democracy, which features elections, civil liberties and separation of powers, majority rule, among other instruments of political participation. It must be noted, however, that majority rule, considered a basic tenet of political democracy, does not necessarily guarantee respect for human rights. The majority of the populations in democratic societies have often supported policies that involved serious violations of human rights. For example, a majority of the American people supported policies of racial segregation, which enjoyed an official sanction from the Supreme Court (not an institution representing majorities) from 1897 (Plessey V. Ferguson) until 1954 (Brown v. the Board of Education). Moreover, a majority of the American people supported settler colonialism and acquiesced in the genocide and dismemberment of the Native Americans. A majority also supported US economic colonialism in Central and South America for three centuries. A majority also supported policies which coddled human rights violators in the Philippines under Marcos, Haiti under Duvaliere, S. Korea under Park, Iran under the Shah, Zaire under Mobutu, Indonesia under Suharto, and the list grows longer. Indeed, a majority of Americans have either supported or acquiesced in policies that propped up Arab dictators and Israeli assassins..."

Entire article at the link

[guydesavoy]

(Torurot @ Feb. 15 2011,15:07)
Only a partial quote. Rest at the link.
Since September, 2001, US administrations have advanced the democracy slogan as a remedy for the malignancy which produced the debacle of September 11.....

A colonialist legacy and a deficient political culture have militated against the infusion of democracy in the Arab world for centuries.

Really ? One word : realpolitik.

Witness the squirming as the State Dept and others now turn against Hosni and their erstwhile friends when it looks like the tide is turning (and not a moment before...)  

It's time we put this old 'C'olonialism chestnut to bed isn't it ? A favourite refuge of every dictator and wannabe who ever raped and pillaged his own people. Also the preferred 'security blanket' in University tutorials for those with no original ideas, and no grasp of what is really going on. (Seems for some that to admit that there are some bad ass apples on the Humanity tree is just making Life too complicated..)

These guys would sell their own mothers for a taste of Power and the spoils that it brings. Throw in the 'C' word and all the Lefties are salivating, and as the chatter from the chattering classes rises to a crescendo, the despot is stuffing his valise with Swiss francs and laughing all the way to the bank  

[Torurot]

Swiss Francs; wasn't it US taxpayer donated USD??

[Tomcat]

Around 75% of politicians worldwide are crooked. Its just a matter of degree.
Just like in Turkey , you into Politics because its crooked , and the same goes for every other third world country... lets not even mention Russia

[Torurot]

I ponder on the lobby/bribery/tribute system that passes for legitimacy/'democracy' in a particular country.

[Tomcat]

So much for the new found freedoms. I notice that in Tunisia the Islamic fruitcakes have closed the brothels down as the first agenda

[dinoboi]

hmm