Lita's Bar

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Aug. 14 2007,15:17)

I obviously incorrectly believed you actually had some sort of obligation to your forum readers to try and help them not get themselves into such a situation but clearly I am wrong on that account too. Now I am sure you will respond that you have no obligation to anyone but yourself.

Get over yourself. I've done more than any one else to ensure that people are aware of the law and the consequenses of breaking it. Anyone who reads any of my posts (on any subject) will know that I'm a stickler for facts and that I try to ensure that people are presented with the correct information and not some breezy guesswork which is often tapped out by some of the dreamers on this board.

It's because of my comments on this thread and on other threads that people reading here are aware of what the law is, the fact that no bar takes the law seriously and that there are serious consequenses if you are unlucky enough to get caught.

Also I am not trying to make up any new rules I just want this particular one enforced.

OK... What age would suit you best? The law says 20, Karl says 16 for service girls and 18 for bar girls. The age of consent in Thailand is 15. Prostitution with anyone is illegal but it's more illegal (!) if the girl is under 18.

So come on smarty pants... what age is your legal minimum threshhold for enforcement? 16? 18? 20? Are you happy with 16 year old 'service staff' bringing you drinks? I'm pretty sure Karl has got this one wrong but I'll apologise if it's me that's off the mark.

How about 18... sound better for you? Still illegal by the way - but you should be in the clear when the cops come!

20 - THAT sounds more like it. Let's watch all the bars fold up their tents and make it 20!

Let's see how long it takes for the cops to come running to ensure bars that with a certain amount of consideration it really doesn't matter what age the girl is so long as the cops are getting fat.

Of course, like you, I could just blame the forum moderator or everyone else for the situation in Pattaya and expect other people to hold my hand every step of the way...  

This message board offers fair debate to all and if you have a hard on for bars that allow girls under 20 (or 18) then just don't go to them. Nobody here is responsible for bailing anyone out of a jail just because they joined a free forum!

I've done more than enough to fulfil my obligations to the members of this board over the years. What have you done?

Here's an idea for you... You can start a forum called "The bars in Pattaya that operate within the law!"

Good luck with it! Should make for some fascinating reading  

You have done moe than anyone else

You have such a high opinion of yourself. Given I am the one making waves about this and you are just responding with your same old tired rhetoric of "Well no bars do it blah blah blah"

Rather than actualy trying to put pressure on the bar owners which a forum like this can do.

What age would suit me and the other forum readers best is the one that does not send them off to jail end of story. So don't try to make out I somehow want different rules for myself and making them up as I go along. They already exist I just want them enforced.

I don't see where I have a blamed you for this situation. Read this thread again I never have, what I said is you should be doing more to try and convince bar owners that they should not allow underage girls in their bars.

OK I will be quiet now as everyone gets my point now anyone well expect you but that was to be expected.

[stogie bear]

thailand is confusing sometimes...

 For the bar owners too, judging by the evidence! One says 16 year olds can serve drinks another says 20 is the minimum!

You have such a high opinion of yourself. Given I am the one making waves about this ...

What? You high-jacked a thread with unclear motives or demands and that's called "making waves"?

Despite your long campaign to belittle my input on this forum and describing my opinions as "worthless" every chance you get you still haven't actually said which law you want enforcing at the ladyboy bars.

I asked and you once again sidestepped the issue with more insane rantings about me and what I think of myself and what I should do to set things straight in Pattaya!

Your 'making waves' has all the impact of a puddle on a breezy day. Jumping in on someones thread to make unclear accusations about some bars not following an as yet undefined law and me and the bar owners not doing enough to protect you, isn't making waves.

It's being a drama queen and not being willing to accept responsibility for your own actions. Your ceaseless emotional rhetoric just diminishes what might have originally been a worthy cause.

Instead of bleating on about how it is ME that is failing the members of this forum for not making a stand why don't [b]you start a thread and make a stand. Why don't YOU do something pro-active to chase away the villainy that is upsetting you so much. Why don't YOU report the bar to the cops, not me! There are loads of tourist police about and I'm sure they'd love a trouble maker upsetting the apple cart for them.

While you are at it get rid of the Uzbeks and Russkies... I'm pretty sure they are doing something illegal. How about them tuk tuk drivers...

Fuck me... It's so easy for you to shout from a keyboard and tell me I'm not doing enough to control the way the bars in Pattaya operate, when I've already helmed the ship that has already made 131 and other bars sit up and make changes.

But you've done fuck all except whine about how much this forum isn't playing it's part.

It's time to take a shit or fuck off the pot. Why don't YOU do something, eh? Fuck me - start a thread, a poll... anything. gather some support... email the bars... ANYTHING!

Of course I already know why you and your kind don't want to get involved... busy being scared that the authorities will ask you to leave or the bikers in black helmets are driving too close! It's one thing to talk about what you want to happen - it's quite another to do anything yourself to get what you want!

Lose your hard on for putting me down all the time and actually do something yourself!  

[Guest]

Your opinion of yourself gets bigger everyday. Belittle your opinions every chance I get. I reply based on the topic not on the poster so get off your high horse. As I said before you are certainly the smartest person you know.

How did I hijack this thread? Was it not about an underage girl? So therefore I am on topic. Given it was SamplerDocs thread maybe he should be the one to tell me to shut the fuck up instead of you.

Take credit for everything but responsibility for nothing. Nice way to live in your bubble.

Who is me and my kind? You just become a bigger fucking wanker everyday. What about you and your hard on for posters like Ziggy that you attack every chance you get you hypocrite.

Anyway you want me to fuck off. You don't have to ask twice.

[stogie bear]

Your opinion of yourself gets bigger everyday...

Well, it's already pretty high...

Well - there is a fair minded balanced poll so people can voice their opinions and help shape the direction of this message board.

You are welcome to contribute.

[stogie bear]

Who is me and my kind?

You don't know? Well, I'll explain it to you. 'You and your kind' are those noisy 'know it alls' who post on forums making demands that involve you losing nothing.

You've got a bloody cheek making me personally responsible for making sure the bars don't have underaged girls in them.

I've done something... What have you done? Bellyached about the bars and the forums without offering any solutions.

Stay or go - it's up to you.

[Guest]

What have I done well lets see I have personally spoken to the bar owners of at least 3 Pattaya bars about having underage girls and that it would be in their best interests to try to stop it.

I have made the rest of the forum members aware and tried to use the forum to put even more pressure on the bar owners who read here.

What have you done again

You make me laugh calling me a know it all. Maybe you need to re-read the things you post including most recently your laughable rubbish on why do they become ladyboys.

Why do you exercise your mighty power oh great one and ban me.

[stogie bear]

Why do you exercise your mighty power oh great one and ban me.

Eh? You ain't banned. Fuck me - it takes more than personal insults to get banned from here. A death threat might do it!

By the way - good for you for talking to the bars about the hiring issue. And also for making forum members more aware of what's going on. I guess we are on the same side!

[rossco]

Bar Fines - sensitive subject. This applies to GG bars as well.

In a closed Bar (GoGo/Club) it is easier to control who is "working" there and carry out age checks.

Open bars welcome Freelancers and if they are "working" in that bar that night it is reasonable to pay the BF.

If you meet them out of hours - up to her.

A couple of points missed.

If a bar owner finds out his staff are "moonlighting" he may dismiss them and that is no good for the employee as they need the salary/drinks/tips as a baseline especially in low season.

Many bars operate a quota system. This applies to GG and LB bars.
Employee must do so many BF's per month and so many Ladydrinks - if they exceed the quota they get a bonus. I know many GG bars in Pattaya where the employee must do 12 BF's per month and 60 Ladydrinks. A non performing employee may be dismissed.

The Quota is based on them earning their base salry back for the bar within the month.

So this encourages the employee to be "honest" about the BF.

Re age check - I think bar owners should be responsible re age check. I take what Stogie says about Prostitution is illegal so "so what" but the penalty for Pedophilia is International. Fine, Deportation, Imprisonment and listed in the home country Sex offenders listing.

The penalty for going with a prostitute of consensual age is not as severe and the cahrge is unlikely to ever be made.

Note Consensual age in Thailand is 18 and not 15 - 15 is allowable with parental consent - so as long as you get her folks to write you a nice letter saying you can fuck their son/daughter you are OK. Up to you.

BF - is a mechanism that allows the bar to avoid breach of solicitation/prostitution. You are compensating the bar for taking their staff out.

I hope my comments are useful. Please avoid underage.

[stogie bear]

but the penalty for Pedophilia is...

Careful... Pedophilia is one thing - screwing a 17 year old prostitute is another and they are defined seperately in a Thail court of law too.

Pedophilia charges are based on the child being pre-pubescent and are rarely brought against anyone. But when they are it's usually a Thai man who could not afford to pay the family for his stupidity, but usually it's a friend or relation of the family so it's quietly hushed up.

Charges of pedophilia against farangs are extremely rare and are taken very seriously by the authorities who go to a lot of trouble to cross their 'T's and dot their 'I's when making an investigation. I don't know of one charge of Pedophilia involving a girl or ladyboy procured from a bar meant for farangs in Pattaya. (I could site you many examples of Thai bars in other cities that do cater for Thai men who go for this kind of thing... Roiet seems to be the hotbed for this at the moment, but as the cops run it asnd are frequently the best customers, well... you know how that works!)

I'm not making light of the distinction; because both engaging in pedophilia and screwing underaged hookers is irrsponsible behaviour but let's not combine the two and mislead people, eh?

The best way to avoid getting into trouble is by staying at a hotel where you can be (more) sure that the ID is genuine and proves the person is 18 or older.

Do NOT rely on the bars or the staff or the girls themselves. Do NOT sign waivers that purportedly absolve the hotels of any legal responsibility. Do not go with a girl who hasn't got an ID or has a 'piece of paper.'

I know this is common sense and is repeated time and time again, and I also realise that the chances of being caught are very small. You've heard on this forum how daft it is and you're tired of hearing us go on about it. But if you piss off a 17 year old ladyboy and she screams loud enough then you're in a shit load of trouble. She can make up anything she wants and really screw up your life.

But there are many of us who like to live on the wild side, too. Pattaya IS 'The Wild Wild West' of fun and debauchery! No amount of proselytizing by the members of this forum is gonna change your ways. You may be lucky and you may get away with the drugs and the -18 girls and the STDs...

I personally wouldn't take the chance and I hope you don't either.

[daveduke007]

I got thrown out of my local Swimmimg Pool last week wearing my new "Speedo" truncks

Realised later that the letter "S" had fallen off them

[gizmo]

[Stewart]

A bunfight!!!

[stogie bear]

Yeah... another one... Gets boring after a while though!

[69billy]

I say, we should not use bth. Buses for charging as flangs 10bth not 5bth...

[jimslim]

I just returned yesterday from Pattaya/Bkk and have just begun to read this thread , I met Samplerdoc in 131 when he told a group of us sitting at the bar what had happened in Litas .
Pattaya at the moment is the quietest Ive ever seen it in all my trips there , and while its good news for punters like me its not so good for the bar owners and ladyboys .
Given the high level of police harressment of ladyboys (virtually everyone I met had been arrested and fined , some also assulted by police ) after 1am instead of hanging around walking street looking for custom , most now head to the bars , Litas and Blue Ice being the most popular , on the nights I visited both bars I saw many I reckonised from other bars .
Given this current situation it is virtually impossible to define who works where and when .
Simply put the LBs are migrating to the bars where the customers are much more than before , because of a very quiet low season .
How any bar owner can keep track of this is beyond me I dont have any answers , ultimitally they can only be responsible for their own staff .
As has been stated by others this is Pattaya after all , its not normal and any thing we chose to do or not to do , we do on the basis of taking responsibility to protect ourselves . Hoping for anyone else to do this would be very foolish .
I had a great time in Litas , and found Lita a charming host , though the talent there is no where near 131 or most other bars , it is a great bar for a late night drink and well laid out .
But at the end of the day if we chose to go with a girl anywhere in Pattaya it is as the Thais like to tell us "Up to you "