USA President Race 2008

[stonefre]

With all the hoopla over Obama I suspect there is going to be a bit of dissappointment after he is in the Whitehouse a while. With that said he is light years ahead of McCain when it comes to matching up with my ideology. I lived the 60's and was part of the counterculture then so no real suprise on where I stand I suppose.

[alan1chef]

You have all stereotyped me as some right-wing-jerry-falwell-type. How wrong you are. We do have a few things in common. I also hate Ohio State; grew up in So Cal...Pac10 fan...go Trojans.

[Snick]

(alan1chef @ Oct. 20 2008,12:25) As for manipulating data to get us into war....let me refresh your aging memory....The Bay of Pigs...President Kennedy and the Democrats tried to get us into a war with Cuba....and the Democrats are so bad at it...they botched it up. Oh yes....the entire mess in Vietnam was a result of botched and manipulated intelligence by the Democrats. It was a Democratic President, LBJ, who sucked us into Vietnam and failed to handle the war properly.  He botched it up so badly, it cost him any chance at re-election. Lefty, you are forgetting your history.

Absolutely right.

And history's lesson is don't fake intelligence to start a war, it doesn't end well.

Of course my recollection of the relevant history doesn't recall any forced renditions, secret prisons, authorized torture, or massive profiteering.

[Lefty]

Trojans? Never use them. Too small for me. I prefer Ramses Extra. Are they the only team named after a condom?

In the Iliad, the Trojans lost to the Greeks (Achaeans) (who btw have the distinction of having anal sex named after them)

Blood ran in torrents, drenched was all the earth,
As Trojans and their alien helpers died.
Here were men lying quelled by bitter death
All up and down the city in their blood.

[alan1chef]

Love it....

[sev7en]

Now Al Qaida announce the favourite
Guess who.

[pacman]

(alan1chef @ Oct. 20 2008,12:25) ....The Bay of Pigs...President Kennedy and the Democrats tried to get us into a war with Cuba....and the Democrats are so bad at it...they botched it up.

It wasn't the President nor the Democrats that were pushing for war with Cuba,

it were the  5 star generals of the Pentagon who were demanding Kennedy strike first.

Left to them the World would have found itself in a Nuclear war, from which there are no winners.

Kennedy refused to be pushed around by these swaggering idiots & called for the advice of the former US ambassador to the USSR, Tommy Thomson, who gave him his answer.

By allowing Kruschev to save face & let him tell the Russians that America had backed down, the missiles were quickly returned to the USSR, thus averting what would have been an enormous catastrophe.

It took great strength of character to stare down his own chiefs-of-staff & defuse this volatile moment in world history.

One shudders to think how George W would have handled it.

[Guest]

From McCain's comments today about being "excited" as a young navy pilot to being assigned a strike mission against Cuba during the missile crisis...I would shudder to think how McCain would react to a similar standoff.

Bomb, bomb, bomb,
Bomb Iran

[pacman]

(alan1chef @ Oct. 20 2008,12:25) ....the entire mess in Vietnam was a result of botched and manipulated intelligence by the Democrats. It was a Democratic President, LBJ, who sucked us into Vietnam and failed to handle the war properly.  He botched it up so badly, it cost him any chance at re-election. Lefty, you are forgetting your history.

It certainly was botched intelligence that lead to 160,000 young American lives to be lost in Vietnam.

It was the Democrat President Johnson who authorised the bombing of Hanoi, after intense pressure from the same trigger happy 5 star Generals who nearly convinced Kennedy to bomb Cuba.

Unfortunately Johnson was no Kennedy & the reasons for bombing North Vietnam were just absurd, a giant fuck-up that is all revealed in the chilling documentary "The Fog of War" where an 85 y.o. Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense at the time all but admits that they over reacted to what was considered to be an attempted torpedo strike on an American gunship.

This must come as cold consolation for all those who either lost their lives or had their life destroyed by the insanity of fighting this pointless conflict.

25 years after the end of hostilities, McNamara met his Vietnamese opposite number who asked him:

"Tell me, why did the Americans ever invade us in the first place?"

McNamara replied that it was to stop the spread of communism from China to the north.

The Viet just shook his head in wonder & said "don't be ridiculous, our hostility & hatred for the Chinese stretches back 1000's of years. We hate them more than you do. Why were you interferring in our civilian war?"

McNamara said he felt like punching him but it was clear his anger was for the utter waste of it all & this poor sad old man sits looking at the camera & for a moment he nearly apologises, but just looks away with tears welling up in his eyes.

Maybe he didn't cry but I defy anyone to watch his revelations & not shed a tear for those who died.

When will they ever learn?

[alan1chef]

I seriously doubt that JFK would allow any generals to tell him what to do pacman. JFK was an experienced military man himself and I am certain he listened to whatever advice he got and in the end made his own decision.

[pacman]

Exactly! He took the generals advice & the advice of the US ambassador to the Soviet Union & he made the right decision.

Those present at the time tell of much pressure put on JFK to strike first. For the fact that he didn't, we can all be very grateful.

I am pleased you have changed your assessment of Kennedy, only a few posts back you were blaming him for trying to get the US into a war with Cuba.

[EyeMahk]

A pretty funny bit from the Howard Stern Show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg

[PigDogg]

(EyeMahk @ Oct. 23 2008,06:59) Howard Stern

Howard is the man!

Been listening since the WNBC days.

[geezer]

(pacman @ Oct. 23 2008,14:10) I am pleased you have changed your assessment of Kennedy, only a few posts back you were blaming him for trying to get the US into a war with Cuba.

I believe the point Alan was trying to make was the ruskies wanted to test out the new boy and their pissing contest got out of hand. Not Kennedy's fault and thank fuck he made the right decision, but America's enemies will always test the limit and if a president is percieved as weak they will try things even more. It's certainly an Irony that a peace loving president will sometimes get you into a war a hawkish one could have avoided.

Personally think the Obama/Biden team is a much stronger one anyway on foreign affairs. We had some guy on the Channel 4 news here last night who worked for Reagan and correctly pointed out that McCain had worked for 30 years in the senate and chose Palin as his running mate? A govenor from Alaska? Surely he has met someone who has more experience in those thirlty years on the hill. He even called her a "comedian."

I just hope the Israel doesn't say fuck it, we're bombing Iran and there's nothing you can do about it. It's very possible in the next 4 years and will be certainly be up there in terms of turning points in world history. Hopefully Obama makes the right choice's as Kennedy did.

[smuttleydfs]

(PigDogg @ Oct. 23 2008,12:55)

(EyeMahk @ Oct. 23 2008,06:59) Howard Stern

Howard is the man!        

Been listening since the WNBC days.

I remember him at WWWW in Ann Arbor. It was a rock station in the late sixties and early seventies that converted to cuntry

Another GOPer has moved to the "Darkside"


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008....r-obama